The foolish virgins will be flown out into the desert???

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by xdisciplex, May 30, 2006.

  1. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
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    Yes, this is exactly what I read in a book about the end times.
    The author says the foolish virgins which are not raptured will be flown out into the desert by the Antichrist who will try to convert them back to his religion but in the meantime the foolish virgins have become wise and won't convert to Satan's religion.He quoted this verse here:

    Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

    According to him all the christians which are not rapture will be flown out into the desert somewhere near Israel and there they will stay because Satan wants to get rid of them. I have never heard this before. It seems a bit odd to me.
    According to him the foolish virgins are not lost they simply do not get raptured but they are saved later on.
     
  2. J. Jump

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    Well I think he has it right in that the foolish virgins were indeed saved (alive spiritually), however I think he missed the mark when saying that not all Christians will be raptured. I think the Bible teaches all Christians will be raptured at the same time, because they will face judgment at that time for deeds whether good or bad.

    Now if there were only faithful servants with only good works that are raptured, then that makes that verse a lie. And we know God can not lie.

    Granted those of us that see all Christians being raptured may be seeing Scripture incorrectly, that certainly can be said, but only time will prove that out. I stand firmly until shown otherwise that all Christians will be raptured at the same time.
     
  3. music4Him

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    Hummm I don't know... I understood the foolish virgins didn't take oil with them. I also understand the oil as being the Holy Spirit. They waited until time ran out and then missed the groom because he couldn't see thier light because no light was in them. (I also thought it might had been like some who have a false conversion or think that since they were a good person assume they will enter in?) *Take special note of verse 12* I don't think they get a second chance?

    Matt 25:1-12
    1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

    2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

    3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

    4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

    5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

    6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

    7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

    8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

    9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

    10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

    11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

    12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
     
  4. J. Jump

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    The key however is in the first verse. It says the kingdom of heaven (should literally read the kingdom of the heavens) is . . . That right there shows us that this message is to and about believers, because only spiritually alive (saved) people can understand this message.

    This is not the message of eternal salvation, but the message of the kingdom of the heavens. Those are two totally separate messages.
     
  5. music4Him

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    So you are saying that the 5 foolish virgins are saved? :eek:
     
  6. J. Jump

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    I'm not saying it. The Bible tells us they were saved.
     
  7. xdisciplex

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    He said Jesus did not let the foolish virgins in to the celebration because they do not belong to the bride. This is where Jesus says he doesn't know them. But if he doesn't know them then how can they be christians? He said they are christians but they don't have to fire and do not love Jesus with all their heart.
     
  8. J. Jump

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    Right. Jesus does not know them in the context of what is being spoken of. Eternity is not the context of the message, so therefore whether they are saved or not is not even the issue of the passage. Whether or not the will be known in relation to the kingdom of the heavens is what is at hand.

    And the five foolish virgins will not be known in tha respect. It has nothing to do with their eternal state, because they was already decided at a previous point in their lives.

    Here's just another way to tell these were saved individuals. The passage says the foolish virgins didn't take any oil with them. That means at their beginning point that had oil and just decided for whatever reason to leave the oil behind instead of taking it with them.

    That didn't take any oil not because they were not in possession of any, but they deliberately decided against taking it because they were foolish.
     
  9. xdisciplex

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    I don't know. There are so many different interpretations of this passage out there, how shall we even know who's right? It's impossible. This is what frustrates me so much about the bible you can never know who's right. It's so wishy washy. :(
     
  10. J. Jump

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    That's why you have to pray it through, study it through and allow the Holy Spirit to direct you to which interpretation is right.

    There really is only two views available to this passage. Either the five foolish were unsaved or saved. But how one views that question is critical. When it comes right down to it, one view is Spirit led and the other is man/other led.
     
  11. Dave

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    I don't think it matters that much to the basic question of salvation which view you take of the foolish virgins. I tend to think that the 5 virgins are the unsaved in the church. The major point of scripture for the beginner is to get the basic story of man's sinfulness, Christ's sacrifice, our redemption and associated truths. The key message is that we need to cry out to God for mercy because we are nothing but sinful wretches headed for destruction. Jesus will save those who come to him.

    Dispensationalism as opposed to Covenant Theology, Eschatology, and other deeper subjects take a spiritual maturity to digest and shouldn't be the point here.

    As far as many interpretations and not knowing who is right, we will never interpret the bible correctly as long as we rely on our own intelligence to do it. The indwelling Holy Spirit within the believer is who leads us into Truth. Many times we can read a passage and not get the spiritual significance, but when we are ready for it, the Holy Spirit reveals it to us as we read.

    Also, comparing scripture to related scripture sheds light on interpretation, but always with reliance on the Holy Spirit, not ourselves.

    My advice is to keep reading, knowing that you will not understand everything at first, but seek God and as you grow in grace and re-read over and over, you will understand more and more. It is a very worthwhile quest. :thumbs:
     
  12. music4Him

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    Well once you read verse 12 you pretty much get the idea thay wern't saved. Just a back up the 10 virgin scripture here is another scripture that is simular.

    Matt. 7:21-23
    Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

    23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    So what say ye? Some are going to think they are saved, but don't bring the oil (or don't have the Holy Spirit) (This could also refer to the parable of the Sower in Mark 4). The virgins without oil for their lamps would be foolish to know that it will get dark and not have oil for their lamp incase the groom comes at night.

    Of couse you are aware that there are people in this world who think being baptised or christened(sp?)(ie what catholics do), some think if you join a church or go to church once a week your good to go. I understand the virgins as such.

    2Tim. 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

    Do you see what I'm saying? I'm just concerned. :flower:
     
  13. J. Jump

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    No that's what you get out of that verse. But if one holds to that few then it is in direct conflict with the passage. We can always be sure that if there is a seeming contradiction that it is not the Bible that is incorrect.



    Again you are reading into Scripture what is simply not there. There is nothing that says that these people that cried Lord, Lord were unsaved. Quite the contrary. Because of the context of the passage we can tell that they were indeed saved, but working outside of God's will.

    As to the virgins you either have oil or you don't. Whether or not you take your oil is a totally different point altogether.

    They had the oil they just didn't take it with them. There are Christians today that are more interested in living for self than they are in walking in the Spirit. They are foolish and will be caught unaware on that day.
     
  14. Hope of Glory

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    One clue to help you:

    Answer the following question:

    What must I do to be saved?
     
  15. xdisciplex

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    Accept Jesus. As it is written in romans 10.

    Anyway, this argument about letting the holy spirit guide you makes no sense. All christians have the holy spirit but not all agree so what does this mean? That only some are guided correctly? This makes no sense at all.
    How do I even know what's the holy spirit and what not? If I rely on feelings I could also simply choose the interpretation which suits me best.
    I have had feelings where I thought I am right but I was wrong. This means you cannot rely on feelings. But how are you supposed to know what's from God and what isn't?
     
  16. Hope of Glory

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    Now, you're getting into what the parable of the virgins is talking about! It's not talking about spiritual salvation, but being obedient.

    How do you know? Study the Bible. It's our instruction manual. Pray. Put your entire life into following the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
     
  17. Dave

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    Also, while I say rely on the Holy Spirit to guide you into Truth, understand that none of us allow that perfectly. In other words, I think we each lean on our understanding to some extent even while trying to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit. We also need to accept the reality of divine mystery which is beyond our human capacity to understand.

    Remember what the apostle Paul said in 1 Corinthians 13:12 "For now we see through a glass darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known". In this life we will only ever be able to understand so much.
     
  18. xdisciplex

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    Okay, but if you cannot even know wether you're relying on the holy spirit or your own understanding then it also makes no sense. You will not find a christian who says "Yes, in this case I am relying on my own understanding" they all think that they are right.
    It simply makes no sense to me. If I cannot understand the bible why should I get even more frustrated trying to udnerstand it?
     
  19. Dave

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    I am not saying so much that you don't know if the Holy Spirit is speaking to you through the word so much as we don't always understand perfectly.

    Remember that in this life we are tainted by past sin, past experience, etc. Many of us grew up in churches that taught based on one theological construct or another. That will color our thinking as we study the scriptures. We are not perfect channels for the Spirit. It is only to the extent that we humbly yield ourselves to the Spirit that He will work through us.

    Getting back to the original question. Does it truly matter if the 5 foolish virgins miss the rapture, but are eventually saved to the immediate purpose of the story? Would you rather be one of the 5 wise virgins or 1 or the 5 foolish virgins? Why? Wouldn't it be much more desireable to be prepared for the Lord when He returns? That is the focus. Watch and wait. Be prepared, for He may come at any time.

    Always look for the clear meaning of the text before trying to incorporate it into a theological construct. A lot of people may agree on the clear meaning that disagree on what deeper truths it may signify. I think you are seeing a lot of the latter on this board. You cannot go right to the deeper truths of the Bible without years of study and leading by the Holy Spirit. It takes a familiarity with the scripture in order to relate this passage to other passages that talk about Wheat and Tares, and 2 women at a wheel spinning, one is taken and the other left. All of these should be compared (this is an incomplete list, but I am just making the point).

    Please do not be discouraged. There is no more rewarding thing you could do than try to discover God through His word. It is spiritual food to help us grow.

    Look at this thread for more on Bible Study. There are some good suggestions here. http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=1665
     
  20. richard n koustas

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    I thought that in this parable:

    the oil represents the Holy Spirit (as it does in so many other places).
    the 5 unprepared virgins represented the Jews in the church age
    the 5 prepared virgins represents the church in the church age
    the bridegroom is Christ returning...
     

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