The Garden

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Palatka51, Nov 13, 2007.

  1. Palatka51

    Palatka51
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    Not wanting to veer off subject on his thread 'The Tree and Garden" I would like to pose this question.
    Was Adam forgiven for his sin before he was barred from the Garden?
    If your answer is before please explain why was he not allowed to stay in. Doesn't God forgive and forget?
     
    #1 Palatka51, Nov 13, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 13, 2007
  2. npetreley

    npetreley
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    1. Why are you only interested in my response? Doesn't anyone else's opinion matter?

    2. Where does it say Adam was forgiven?
     
  3. Joshua Rhodes

    Joshua Rhodes
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    I don't think you're supposed to use a member's name in the topic of a post.
     
  4. Palatka51

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    But of course all are free to answer.
    It doesn't however it might be said that God provided the clothing for Adam's covering implying that he was.
     
  5. Palatka51

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    Thanks for the correction DHK. I must have had a "Senior Moment." ;) :eek:
     
  6. npetreley

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    Providing clothing for Adam implies that God forgave his sin? I don't get the connection. I suspect I won't be able to answer your question because I can't even begin to see how you're drawing your conclusions.
     
  7. Amy.G

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    I have heard this before. The idea is that God sacrificed an animal and blood was shed for the man's nakedness to be covered. The man had made his own "clothing" (his own righteousness) out of leaves, which is useless in terms of forgiveness from God, so God provided the only covering that would suffice (His righteousness).

    Sacrifice + shedding of blood = atonement.
     
  8. npetreley

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    Wow, that's new to me. If making the tunics of skin were about forgiveness, I suspect scripture would say more than just "the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them."

    Regardless, I think it's pretty obvious why God banished them from the garden.

    God said that if they ate of the forbidden fruit, they'd die, right? So God had to banish them in order to keep them from eating from the tree of life. It says it right there (above). As far as I can see, it has nothing to do with forgiveness (or lack thereof).
     
  9. menageriekeeper

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    What Amy says is what I've always been taught as well.

    But, in answer to Palatka's question: barring Adam from the garden wouldn't suggest that God didn't forgive him. Being barred from the garden was part of the original curse. God said Adam would have to work the ground by the sweat of his brow to make his living (or some such words). Adam wouldn't have had to work much if he stayed in a thriving garden full mature trees bearing fruit......But also, Adam had to be barred from the Tree of Life so as not to eat of it and live forever.
     
  10. Amy.G

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    I have also heard that the reason for Adam being banished from the garden was to prevent him from eating from the tree of life and living forever in a state of falleness. Do you think this means that he wasn't forgiven when God made the covering for him? It seems to imply that, but I don't know.
     
  11. menageriekeeper

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    Is your salvation complete, Amy? I mean are you completely forgiven? The answer of course is yes. But you still have to suffer the earthly consequences of your sinful actions. So if you lie to your husband about how much money is in the bank account, you have to deal with the overdraft charges and his wrath. Does God still consider you forgiven? Of course he does.

    Npet, brings up a good point that we aren't actually told the animal God used to make Adam and Eve clothing was the first sacrifice. That much seems to be presumed as it is the only account we find of shedding blood in connection with Adam and Eve. We know that by the time Cain and Abel were old enough to require such that they knew what they were supposed to be doing to please God. ABel brought a lamb. Hence the presumption.

    Now as I read the scripture (Gen. 3) I see the verses between God's original declaration of curse as simply a pause in the action. I believe it was already in the plan to turn Adam and Eve out of the Garden where they were completely taken care of into the cold, cursed world outside. But God wanted/needed to provide clothing/covering for them before He turned them over to live out the consequences of their actions.
     
  12. Palatka51

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    The thing is then, why did God provide him with the "tunic?" God did the killing and the skinning. Blood was shed for the very first time. God did not weave a fabric nor did He clip wool, He skinned a lamb. Mans method of covering was not good enough. Nor is mans attempt to approach God. God came looking for Adam, found him in fig leaves and after the questioning put him in a "tunic" and told him to go till the ground.
    (Just to make the long story short).
     
  13. npetreley

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    I'm not sure we can even assume that Abel's sacrifice was acceptable because it was a blood sacrifice. Here's are the relevant verses:

    My view may be just as presumptuous as the one about blood sacrifice, but it seems as if the difference between the sacrifices is the element of faith involved.

    It takes no faith to sacrifice some of your fruit. More will grow, and I assume (just a guess) that Cain only sacrificed some of his yield, not ALL of the first fruits. Regardless, even if he sacrificed ALL of the fruit, it's not like he really depended upon one yield to produce another yield. The same trees will sprout a lot of fruit again, and continue to do so for many years.

    It takes more faith to sacrifice the firstborn of your flock. First, sheep don't automatically produce more sheep as fruits every season. ;) Sheep are shorter-lived and more fragile than trees, and they can be killed by predators. The firstborn are animals that you could depend on using to produce more animals for your flock. If you sacrifice them, you have to trust God to give you a healthy second-born and third-born, etc.
     
  14. npetreley

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    Well, I answered your question, and I simply don't attach the significance to the tunics that you do.
     
  15. Palatka51

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    Yes, this is where I wanted this to go. Even today when a person is saved, the life they had before still brings consequences to deal with. The clothing that God provided is telling us that He would provide protection from past or forgiven sin. If He had allowed them back into the Garden and Adam ate of the Tree of Life then he would suffer the consequences for eternity. Death was the only answer for mans sin.
     
  16. menageriekeeper

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    This is only my opinion of course, but I'm thinking that the word fat in reference to Able's offering implies that something died.

    I agree Cain had a bad attitude, but don't believe that is why God rejected his offering. I think Cain's bad attitude was that he was going to bring to God what he wanted instead of what God desired.

    I also don't believe that it is inappropriate to apply later scriptures concerning sacrifice to these early times. There are other references to sacrifice before Moses and the Ten Commandments. Makes me believe that the reference to sacrifice was expected to be understood as a blood sacrifice, for "without the shedding of blood there can be no remission of sin".

    So, Palatka, they were "clothed in His righteousness" as an example of future events?
     

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