The Gift of God !

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, Jun 16, 2012.

  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Eph 2:8

    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    Salvation being a Gift is not due to the fact that God offers it to everyone, and then its up to them to accept or reject, for that is a lie from the pit of hell Rev 9:1-2, but its a Gift for Two Reasons, one is in the fact that God hath accepted the Offering of His Son as a satisfactory Offering, to pay the whole sin debt of those He was made a Surety in behalf of. So the Gift is in the fact that God the Father hath accepted at the hands of His Son, His Offering, His Blood in the place of Chosen guilty sinners, which again satisfies His Law and Justice. That the Gift of Eph 2:8 is of that sort is by the use of the word for Gift, it is the greek word dōron and means:


    gift, present

    a) gifts offered in expression of honour

    1) of sacrifices and other gifts offered to God

    2) of money cast into the treasury for the purposes of the temple and for the support of the poor

    2) the offering of a gift or of gifts

    Its the same word gift used here Matt 5:23

    23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;

    See Matt 2:11 and Matt 23:19

    And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.

    So the Gift of God in Eph 2:8 is the Gift of Christ's Offering to the Father in doing His Will Heb 10:7-10

    In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

    7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

    8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

    9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

    10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

    This Offering of Christ of His Body, is the Gift offered unto God, the Gift of Himself as an sin Offering for the sins of God's People, and this Gift Offering is How the Church is saved by Grace through Faith, because of the Gift Offering of Christ to the Father's Law and Justice. It has not one thing to do with Salvation being an offer to men in order for them to accept or reject it ! The word offering in Heb 10:10 above is the greek word prosphora and means:


    the act of offering, a bringing to

    2) that which is offered, a gift, a present. In the NT a sacrifice, whether bloody or not: offering for sin, expiatory offering

    Now that this Gift of God has satisfied completely His Law and Justice, what remains to be done to those Chosen sinners is to Have that Gift of God [Offering of Christ] revealed to them, it is to make known this Gracious Transaction to those who are the beneficiaries of it, for which purpose the Gospel is for, and it becomes the Gospel of their Salvation Eph 1:13. What the Gospel does is to communicate the good news of one's Salvation to them, so that they come to know of it and rejoice in it to the Praise of God's Grace ! Now those who are preaching Salvation as an gift, and do mean by it a offer to them that they ca neither accept or reject, they are simply preaching a false gospel, and the message is from satan,and Not God !
     
  2. The Biblicist

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    You are one messed up dude with one messed up soteriology. Try interpreting "the gift of God" by its immediate context.

    He is talking about being "quickened" (vv. 1, 5) which is what the term "saved" refers to in verse 8 as it is first introduced in verse 5 in apposition with "quickened." We are quickened by grace. It is the creative work of God and therefore not of works but is a "gift" of God. Quickening is a gift of God.

    He is not talking about the redemptive work of Christ but the quickening work of the Holy Spirit. Try interpreting scripture by its context and it will keep you from making up doctrines as you go.
     
  3. savedbymercy

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    The Gift of God ! cont



    Secondly, Salvation is a Gift in that the benefits of it are given or bestowed upon the recipients [Sovereignly], and this is in New Birth. Since God hath accepted the Gift or Oblation of His Son in the behalf of His Elect, the real culprits, this being an act of God's Grace as well, they in turn shall be given a New Life that enables them to live unto God and for His Glory, this is The Gift of Eternal Life experientially, and this comes by New Birth. Yes to be given New Birth is the Gift of God James 1:17-18

    17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

    18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

    James uses Two different Greek words here for gift, but they are both similar. The first one is the word dosis and means

    a giving

    2) a gift

    The Ideal here is not offering something to someone, but simply giving of a Gift ! Its bestowing a Gift !

    The second word dōrēma and means:

    a gift, bounty, benefaction

    This Gift given is a benefaction of the The Lord Jesus Christ having given His Life as an gift Offering in behalf of others. The benefaction, which means:

    an act of conferring a benefit; the doing of good; a good

    to bestow upon as a gift, favor, honor

    Notice that James stated that this Gift is from above !

    The word from above is the same word used in John 3:3,7

    3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


    Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

    Jesus is telling him,He must be born from above or by that Gift from above !

    For we should understand the Gift to be New Birth because in the next vs 18 He writes

    Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

    The word begat here means :

    to bring forth

    a) from the womb

    b) give birth to

    2) produce

    The Gift of God is a New Birth, a New produce or bringing into existence !
     
  4. billwald

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    When a gift is given, title passes. Conditional "gifts" are contracts, not gifts.
     
  5. savedbymercy

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    The Gift of God ! cont


    The New Birth is the Perfect Gift the Father of Lights gives to all for whom Christ died. He is called the Father of Lights alluding to Him as a Creator, the Creator of Lights such as Ps 74:16

    The day is thine, the night also is thine: thou hast prepared the light and the sun.

    Ps 136:7-9

    7 To him that made great lights: for his mercy endureth for ever:

    8 The sun to rule by day: for his mercy endureth for ever:

    9 The moon and stars to rule by night: for his mercy endureth for ever.

    Gen 1:14-16

    14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

    15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

    16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

    God made Lights according to His own Will, and So is the Gift of He giving those Christ died for New Birth James 1:17-18

    17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

    18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

    And as the Creating of the Great Lights were according to God's Mercy Ps 136:7

    So likewise is the begetting us again 1 Pet 1:3

    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    This being begotten again and the beget He us of James 1:18 are primarily the same,one follows the other !

    The Gospel or the word of Truth brings forth that New Life, like a New Born being brought out of the womb at first birth. There was life preceding the birth of which Created the Life to be brought forth by the word of Truth.

    Regeneration or New Birth is a Perfect Gift ! The word Perfect here is the same word used in 1 Cor 2:6

    6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among or at them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

    Them that are Perfect are those whom Have Been given the Perfect Gift of Regeneration or New Birth, which capacitates them Hear and believe and embrace the word of truth, the Gospel of their Salvation !
     
  6. The Biblicist

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    You should be removed from this forum because you are not interested in debating your theories but only attempting to proselyting others to your mixture of true and false theological theories.
     
  7. The Biblicist

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    Faith is inclusive in "the gift of God" in Ephesians 2:8. Your denial that justifying faith is a "gift" of grace has been thoroughly refuted a number of times.

    You have not and cannot give an EXEGETICAL response to Romans 4:3-5; 16.

    You have not and cannot give an EXEGETICAL response to John 6:44-45;64-65

    These two passages deny that justifying faith is "of works" but rather is the gift of God's grace "except it be GIVEN him" (Jn. 6:65 - that explains why some did not believe in him - v. 64).

    All you have done is wildly ASSERT and REPEAT your false teaching as though repeating it like a parrot makes any more true the second and in adfinitim time more so than the first time!

    I dare you to provide an exegetical based response to what Jesus was referring to in John 6:65 in the words "except IT be given unto him"!!!! What is the immediate preceding antecedant to John 6:65 or what John 6:65 was in response to if it is not unbelief in verse 64?

    I will tell you your response in advance. You will ignore the contextual evidence and simply act like a parrot and repeat your heretical nonsense.
     
    #7 The Biblicist, Jun 18, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 18, 2012
  8. Yeshua1

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    the gift of God is eternal life in Christ jesus unto those who receive Him by faith!

    No faith in him, no salvation!
     
  9. savedbymercy

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    Show us what is wrong with post 5 ! Explain what I have said, then prove it wrong with scripture !
     
  10. The Biblicist

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    That is not the point! You simply continue to make posts and disregard when they are exposed and proved to be wrong!

    For example, I proved exegetically from John 6:64-65 that faith is a "gift" of God equally as regeneration or the provision of Christ's body by God. You ignored the evidence. I challenged you to prove exegetically that my interpretation of John 6:64-65 is incorrect.
     
  11. savedbymercy

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    the bib

    If this is supposedly christian debate, then it should be geared as to qualifying what is the Truth of scripture, other than that, debate is sinful and of the flesh !

    2 Cor 12:20

    For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults:

    Rom 1:29

    Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

    Now other than that, I have given from scripture something for deliberation and consideration.

    The word gift in Eph 2:8 , the word is used in the NT generally as an Offering to God, Not as something offered to men !

    The Word Gift there makes it Highly Likely that what Paul is Saying about Salvation by Grace through Faith, is that it is an result of the Offering of Christ.

    The Gift of Quickening Eph 2:4-6 is also an Effect of the Oblation of Christ !

    Now prove this wrong ! You have yet to do so. Just screaming that the word Gift is in the context of Eph 2:4-9 means nothing, how does that prove against the Gift of Eph 2:8 is not speaking of the Death of Christ, His Offering to God Heb 10:10

    By the which will we are sanctified through the offering[Gift] of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

    Now quit all your cry babying and do some work to show us this conclusion cannot possibly be correct ! I do not think you are capable of doing it, you are big bluff around here !
     
  12. The Biblicist

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    I agree! So I responded to your "gift" post and gave substantive response to prove that "faith" is not a work of man but a "gift" of God and you have not yet attempted to give any substantive contextually based response to John 6:64-65 to prove that my interpretation is wrong!
     
  13. billwald

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    >the gift of God is eternal life in Christ jesus unto those who receive Him by faith!

    Yes, but is it the ONLY gift of God and the only way it can be delivered?
     
  14. Yeshua1

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    faith in jesus ONLY way that the Bible gives us, in order to be saved!
     
  15. savedbymercy

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    the bib

    I have always believed that and Taught that.

    But this Thread is not about that point. You need to read the op again and responded in a more intelligent manner as to what the point is. First you may need to understand my point from the OP. Read it and then get back with me as to what my point is, because as of now, you are going in another direction a rabbit trail !
     
  16. Yeshua1

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    strange, do you remember ALWAYS stating that IF one held to aperson MUST place faith in jesus in order to be saved, a 'works religion?"
     
  17. The Biblicist

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    Come again????? You have dogmatically argued that faith is a work and that it is not "by grace" or "of grace" and thus not a "gift" of God and you have pages of posts to prove that has been your argument.
     
  18. Yeshua1

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    yes,as he holds us to be the 'seeds of jesus", saved in him before foundation of the earth!
     
  19. savedbymercy

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    If you want to discuss that, go to the appropiate thread, this one is about The Gift of God and it not being a offer !
     
  20. Yeshua1

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    faith is a gift of God, no NOT a work that we do, have produced by ourselves!
     

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