The Good News about Hell

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Claudia_T, Sep 21, 2005.

  1. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
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    The "Gospel" is the good news about Christ, the good news about God. But what about how God is being portrayed to the world when it comes to the common teaching about "Hellfire"?

    Unfortunately, countless Unbelievers are turned away from Christ when they are constantly told that God is going to make them burn forever and ever in Hell if they do not come to Christ. Then in the same breath they are told to come to God because "He loves them".

    The confusing message that seems to be a contradicting one, cause so many Unbelievers to actually HATE God and to forever turn away from Christianity.

    Dont we owe it to God, therefore, to take time to examine the Scriptures to see what they actually teach about Hellfire? What if Christians today have just adopted tradition for generations, instead of actual biblical truth when it comes to this subject?

    Please take the time to read these articles below and then honestly ask yourself "have I been taught a lie about God?" "Have I been giving out a false picture about God to the world and cooperating with Satan in turning people away from the Gospel and from our loving Heavenly Father?


    "PART 1

    Fate of the Transgressor

    Regarding the wicked, what question does Peter ask?
    "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God; and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" 1 Peter 4:17.

    What does Paul say is the wages of sin?
    "For the wages of sin is death." Rom. 6:23 (Eze. 18:4). NOTE. - Die. - To cease to live; to expire; to decease; to perish. - Webster.

    What will be the character of this death?
    "Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power." 2 Thess. 1:9 (Acts 3:23) (Matt. 10:28).
    NOTE. - Destroy. - To kill; to slay; to ruin; to put an end to. - Webster."

    [Edited post for copying and entire artilce in violation of posting rules regarding copyrighted materials. You can post a short quote with proper reference to source and author. Then you can summarize and discuss in your own words and thoughts.]

    [ September 24, 2005, 12:12 AM: Message edited by: Bible-boy ]
     
  2. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
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    WHAT IS IT THAT IS "EVERLASTING" ABOUT HELL?


    "Everlasting Punishment

    When the wicked have once received their punishment, how enduring will be its effect?
    "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment; but the righteous into life eternal." Matt. 25:46.

    What is the punishment for sin?
    "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Rom. 6:23.
    NOTE. - This is the very opposite of eternal life. Everlasting punishment, then, is everlasting death, a death that lasts forever."

    How many deaths are there for the wicked?
    "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murders, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death. Rev. 21:8."

    [Edited post due to its violation of copyright laws and the BB posting rules regarding copyrighted materials. You can post a short quote from such material and cite the souce and the author. Then you must summarize and use your own words and thoughts to engage in the discussion.]

    [ September 24, 2005, 12:14 AM: Message edited by: Bible-boy ]
     
  3. Claudia_T

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    The following is by Samuele Bacchiocchi, Ph. D. Professor of Theology, (Seventh Day Adventist) Andrews University on the subject of HELLFIRE:


    "HELL: ETERNAL TORMENT OR ANNIHILATION?

    Few teachings have troubled the human conscience over the centuries more than the traditional view of hell as a place where the lost suffer conscious fiery punishment in body and soul for all eternity. The prospect that one day a vast number of people will be consigned to everlasting torment of Hell is most disturbing and distressing to sensitive Christians. After all, almost everyone has friends or family members who have died without making a commitment to Christ. The prospect of one day seeing them agonizing in Hell for all eternity can easily lead thinking people to say to God: "No thank you God. I am not interested in Your kind of paradise!"

    [Edited post due to its violation of copyright laws and the BB posting rules regarding copyrighted materials. You can post a short quote from such material and cite the souce and the author. Then you must summarize and use your own words and thoughts to engage in the discussion.]

    [ September 24, 2005, 12:08 AM: Message edited by: Bible-boy ]
     
  4. Claudia_T

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    I may add more information later, but this ought to be good for now.
     
  5. Claudia_T

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    also, go here and just scroll down to "The Good News about Hell" and listen to it:

    [Edited link because it went to a website that cliams to be non-denominational; however, it contains links and information to Seventh Day Adventist (SDA) churches and worship services. SDA is considered to be a cult due to certian heretical teachings that depart from traditional orthodox Christain Doctrines. Thus, you may not post links to such material according to the BB posting rules.]

    I hope that you will find it to be helpful.


    Claudia

    [ September 23, 2005, 11:59 PM: Message edited by: Bible-boy ]
     
  6. steaver

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    It sure is! Because I am joining a few others in ignoring anything you post. This is a debate forum and if you bring up a topic, or respond to anothers, you should stay engaged in a discussion about it. I can read doctrines all over the internet. I am here to deliberate and hopefully grow in the process.

    God Bless! [​IMG]
     
  7. Chemnitz

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    Ah yes Hell ain't so bad, you never have to worry about cold feet. [​IMG]

    I agree with the other's if all you are going to do is post the work of others, I am not going to pay much attention. If you can't bother to learn it well enough to defend it yourself, maybe you should ask if you actually believe what they are trying to teach you.
     
  8. Grasshopper

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    I have actually come to the possibily of annihilation from my own study of the Tree of Life and immortality. I think it is a subject that should be discussed more. Here are some questions I struggled with:

    Define Immortality
    Does the lost man have immortality?
    How and when does the lost man recieve immortality?
    Define perish
    What did the Tree of Life provide?
    What does "live forever" mean?
     
  9. Marcia

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    A discussion with posts of reasonable length is welcomed but posting long post after long post, especially quoting other sources, is not giving you any credibility, Claudia.

    By now, you should know that most of us are not reading your extremely long posts.
     
  10. Claudia_T

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    [Edited links because each one went to or was linked to a "MacDonald Road Seventh Day Adventist" website. SDA is considered to be a cult due to its teaching of certain heretical doctrines that depart from traditional orthodox Christian doctrines. Thus, according to the BB posting rule you may not post links to such sites.]

    additional Bible verses about "Hell" for those interested in further study

    [ September 24, 2005, 12:16 AM: Message edited by: Bible-boy ]
     
  11. OldRegular

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    Claudia_T

    Does all this mean you are a no-heller like the Jehovah's Witnesses?
     
  12. OldRegular

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    Consider this Scripture:

    Mark 9:43-48
    43. And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
    44. Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

    45. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
    46. Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

    47. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
    48. Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
     
  13. Jim1999

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    Good news about Hell? If this were the case, one could justify living like the devil in this world cos the worst we can expect is death and it happens anyway. All those years preaching the gospel down the tubes. Just another misguided application of scriptures, or perhaps, wishful thinking that we can escape the sure and just punishment for sinful mankind.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  14. BobRyan

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    In Matt 10 Christ said that we are to fear Him who "DESTORYS BOTH Body AND SOUL in HELL FIRE".

    Hell is REAL. Hell REALLY destroys with REAL fire. Hell REALLY destroys REAL souls and REAL bodies in REAL fire.

    How much more REAL can this get?

    But then there are those who want to make the story of hell about "immortal worms". I think they are missing the point.

    In Rev 14 we have the wicked burning in hell - with fire and brimstone and in torment. REAL wicked, REALLY burning in REAL fire and REAL brimstone in REAL torment and all of it REALLY in the "PRESENCE of the LAMB and of His Holy Ones" -- "really" -

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  15. Grasshopper

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    Where in the text does it say the lost man does not perish and is not destroyed but remains in hell eternally?

    Sodom and Gomorrha are given to us as an example:

    2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

    Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

    Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

    Is Sodom and Gomorrha still on fire? Jude says it was an eternal fire.


    What is meant by a fire that will not be quenched?

    Here is what Jeremiah says concerning a prophecy fulfilled in 586BC:

    Jer 17:27 But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched.

    Is Jerusalem still on fire? Unquenchable seems to indicate the fire will not be put out until it has accomplished what it was intended to do.
    Here is what Gill says regarding Jer.17:27:

    and it shall not be quenched ; until it has utterly destroyed the city: this was fulfilled by the Chaldeans


    So there is nothing in Mark 9 that indicates the lost are burned and tortured endlessly.
     
  16. Grasshopper

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    This is an argument usually used by those who believe you can lose your salvation: “If I believed I could never lose my salvation, then I would live like the Devil and still go to Heaven”.

    This line of thinking completely diminishes what salvation is. If one is truly saved, then why would one want to “live like the Devil” no matter what they believed about eternal security or eternal punishment? Would you?

    Annihilationist would agree with Matt 10. In fact it seems to strengthen their case. It says destroy, not a perpetual torture. Here is what Thayer says on “destroy”:

    G622
    ἀπόλλυμι
    apollumi
    Thayer Definition:
    1) to destroy
    1a) to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin
    1b) render useless
    1c) to kill
    1d) to declare that one must be put to death
    1e) metaphorically to devote or give over to eternal misery in hell
    1f) to perish, to be lost, ruined, destroyed
    2) to destroy
    2a) to lose

    So, are those worms immortal?
     
  17. Grasshopper

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    My question remains, how and when does the lost man put on immortality. He was not born with it, because only God is has immortality:

    1ti 6:15 which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
    1ti 6:16 who alone has immortality , dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.


    This life was given to Jesus:

    Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

    Jesus gives this life to those who believe:

    2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

    2pe 1:4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

    Paul tells us when we put on our immortality:

    1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
    1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
    1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    So how and when does the lost man put on immortality? Is immortality a gift to all regardless of faith?

    What does the phrase "live forever" mean in Genesis?

    Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

    What did the Tree of Life provide? Was it not immortality?
     
  18. tamborine lady

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    [​IMG]

    Correction: Matt 10-28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

    Says God is able to destroy, doesn't say He does or will.
     
  19. BobRyan

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    "FEAR Him who is ABLE to make a zillion mile long toothpick" -- not that God actually WOULD do such a thing but "fear Him AS IF He might"??

    That is one way to look at scripture I suppose.

    I don't do it though.

    I text that text "for real".

    There is no reason to FEAR Him who is ABLE to destroy - but who NEVER DOES!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  20. Grasshopper

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    So you both are of the opinion that God doesn't destroy the lost man?

    Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

    Does the word "able" indicate to you He could if He wanted, but He doesn't want to?

    Mat 26:61 And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.
     

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