The inevitable results of Christ's Obedience !

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, Sep 9, 2012.

  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Just as by ones man's disobedience, those that he federally represented, were made actually disobedient See Paul's statement to the Elect here Titus 3:3

    For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

    So likewise, by one mans obedience, those He federally represented shall be made actually obedient !

    Rom 5:19

    19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
     
  2. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Are Faith and Repentance required in Salvation ?

    Are Faith and Repentance required in Salvation ? Yes they are requirements for the conversion experience evidence, they are duties to be performed by those who are born again as evidences of having been given Covenant blessings through the meritorious Person and Work o Jesus Christ. To know whether or not one has been given repentance by Jesus Christ their Saviour as Per Acts 5:31

    31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

    Then the command to repent is given Acts 17:30

    30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

    Repentance and Faith were given by or through the New Birth which is through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead 1 Pet 1:3

    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    The word begotten again is the greek word anagennaō and means:


    to produce again, be born again, born anew

    2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

    This " to have one's mind changed" is to give repentance !

    So yes, evangelical obedience is required as an EVIDENCE and FRUIT of Christ's Redemptive Cross Work. It is to this reason that evangelical obedience Faith and Repentance are required evidences of Salvation.

    The Apostles of Christ, upon them Preaching the Gospel of God's Grace, that those believing and being baptized was evidence of them being in a saved state, as was those not believing was evidence of being in a lost state.

    The difference from what I am teaching here and what false teachers teach, is the false teachers teach that Faith and Repentance are requirements for salvation that men perform in order to get saved, Whereas I teach that Repentance and Faith are requirements to give evidence of already being in a saved state !
     
  3. SovereignMercy

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    I agree. Regeneration must occur before one can believe. John 3:3 should be translated "born from above". Jesus is referring to this Psalm when speaking with Nicodemus. Consider these passages.

    His foundation is in the holy mountains. The LORD loves the gates of Zion more than all the dwellings of Jacob. Glorious things are spoken of you, O city of God! Selah "I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon to those who know Me; behold, O Philistia and Tyre, with Ethiopia: 'This one was born there.' " And of Zion it will be said, "This one and that one were born in her; and the Most High Himself shall establish her." The LORD will record, when He registers the peoples: "This one was born there." Selah Both the singers and the players on instruments say, "All my springs are in you."

    Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?" Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."

    "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."

    But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning. Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.

    being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

    Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
     
  4. billwald

    billwald
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    If God regenerates a person but the person gets run over by a bus before he catches on and invites Jesus into his heart, does he go to Heaven or Hell?
     
  5. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Ah come on Bill! If God is capable of regenerating a man and he appoints his birth, the time of his second birth and appoints the time of His death do you really think he is going to mess things up? I know a case where God sent a man to share the gospel to a man in the last minutes of his life while hanging on a cross. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says that all the elect are chosen to salvation THROUGH sanctification AND belief of the truth. If they don't arrive at "belief of the truth" then it is a scheduling error on God's part!
     
  6. savedbymercy

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    sm


    Yes, the New Birth is the only thing that delivers one from unbelief ! And the New Birth is the fruit of Christ's Resurrection, which is the fruit of His Meritorious Death.
     
  7. The Biblicist

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    The parallelism that those who shared the consequences of Adam's sin experienced through generation and so it is with those whom Christ represented as they experience it through regeneration.
     
  8. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Conversion is from God !



    Acts 3:19

    Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

    The antichrist crowd would have us believe the lie that a mans conversion to God is contingent upon his own freewill, but that is a lie, for all of Salvation from beginning to its glorious consummation in Glory is all of God, the beginning of which is conversion. God of old promised conversion to the Elect Seed here Deut 30:6

    6 And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.



    That seed is Identified by Paul here by heart circumcision Rom 2:29

    29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    These who had a Spiritual reputation of Faith Rom 1:8

    8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

    Yes, these here are those in Rom 2:29 !

    Who are also these Rom 4:13-16

    13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

    14 For if they which are of the law be heirsfaith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

    15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

    16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

    17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

    Now this vs 16 " all the seed" is speaking of both jew and gentile ! And they are the same as those in Rom 2:29 who are the ones Identified in Deut 30:6. This informs us that gentiles were part of that seed who it was promised Heart Circumcision to in Deut 30:6, that was a Mystery then !

    So yes, again, the seed of Rom 4:13,16 comprised of both jew and gentile believers in Christ, are the seed that God promised conversion to or that He would circumcise their heart in Deut 30:6, which circumcision results in conversion ! I like to see anyone refute this with scripture. This also Identifies Israel as the Church, the Body of Christ, if we have eyes to see !
     
  9. savedbymercy

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    I agree with that,however as they were declared sinners before they were genrated, so likewise they are declared Righteous before they are born again.

    The elect are born experientially sinners because they were made sinners by the sin of adam [imputation], apart from their own personal sinning, and the Elect are born again experientially Righteous because they were made righteous by Christ's Obedience[imputation] Rom 5:19b apart from their own personal obedience, which does begin at their New Birth !
     
  10. savedbymercy

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    Conversion is from God ! cont



    That God did promise conversion and that it is performed by and through Christ unto the Seed, the Children of Promise or Covenant or of the Prophets is seen in Peter's sermon here Acts 3:22-26

    22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

    23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

    24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

    25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

    26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

    The blessing of Conversion through Christ is acknowledged by Peter in Vs 26, where it is proclaimed that Jesus Christ was SENT to Bless them [ Gen 12:3] How ? In Turning everyone of them from their sins or wickedness, that is Conversion !

    And for any to ignorantly reply that this here only applied to ethnic jews, then you totally disregard Vs 25 which announces that through Christ the Promised Seed, All Nations shall be blessed ! Blessed how ? Vs 26 by turning them from their sins, Conversion. Now to deny this is to deny the Gospel, for Paul said God Preached the Gospel to Abraham, and what was it ? Gal 3:8

    8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

    That is what Acts 3:25 refers to !

    25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

    Peter here at the time he preached it, was just ignorant that it applied to Gentiles also ! But doctrinally and according to the Faith he was sound !
     
  11. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    To Believe on Christ for Salvation !



    Contrary to the followers of false teachers, it is not in the ability of man to believe on Christ for Salvation, so Paul wrote to some this Phil 1:29

    29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

    Two blessings are given here Faith and Perseverance to suffer for the cause of Christ, neither comes with the nature of man. Therefore to consider Faith or believing as a requirement man performs to get saved is great error, for Faith or Believing is a Covenant Blessing, A Covenant that was made with Jesus Christ for the People Ps 89:3-4

    3 I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,

    4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.

    This Promise to the Antitypical David, the Lord Jesus Christ, is a Promise to establish His Seed, a Covenant Promise ! The Establishment of the Seed is in the Faith as Per:

    Acts 16:5

    And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily.


    There is a Seed of Believers Rom 4:16

    16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

    The Lord Jesus Christ as the Covenant Head has fulfilled all the conditions, so His Seed must be Established in the Faith, and so all His Seed Isa 53:10 must have their Eyes of Faith opened Isa 42:6-7

    6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

    7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

    Thats giving Faith, that is being given to believe on the Name of the Son of God !

    Before this, all the Elect are by Nature shut up in unbelief Rom 11:32

    32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

    This word concluded is important here to see this point of unbelief. It is the greek word sygkleiō and means:



    to shut up together, enclose

    a) of a shoal of fishes in a net

    2) to shut up on all sides, shut up completely

    To enclose or:

    to surround, as with a fence or wall

    What does this remind us of ? What is enclosed behind a High Wall or Fence on all sides ? A Prison, Our Native Unbelief is being in a Prison, and what is one of the benefits of the Covenant being fulfilled by the Covenant Head ? Read Isa 42:7

    7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

    Out of the prison house of unbelief, and spiritual ignorance and darkness !

    Everyone Christ died for must be released from the prison of unbelief, that all by the Judgment of God for sin was concluded in !
     

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