The Judgement

BaptistBeliever can and will answer for himself, but I gave you an answer.

I answered it, but you must of not read it. It is talking about how the world treated Christians, unless you believe you can lose your salvation.


Matt: 25
32: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34: Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:



40: And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. (The lost did it to the Christians, so they did it to the Lord also. If they had of done the right thing, they no doubt, would of been among the saved.)

41: Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44: Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45: Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46: And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

BBob,

 

These are about believers, so the reward is not salvation. They already have salvation. Also, if it were talking about salvation, it would be a works salvation, so we know it's not salvation.

Jesus also spoke of certain cities getting greater punishment than others.

My pastor has given sermons on this; of course, we do not know the nature of the rewards (which is a good thing) but it may be the capacity to enjoy the presence of the Lord.

I realize not everyone may agree on this reward thing.

 

I believe we are rewarded in this life for many things. Sometimes we do not even know. We always fail to give the praise that He deserves.

There will be no big "I's" and little "you's" in Heaven. I no longer will be a Pastor in Heaven.

BBob,

 

I read this and these two words came to my mind....."WOW" and "AMEN"!!:thumbs:

Willis

 

So you believe these verses talk about rewards in this life? Even though a lot of these people were martyred?

Well, my pastor disagrees with you, and so do a lot of others I've heard and read.

And btw, my pastor does preach that one must be born again! :thumbs:

 

I have no quarrel with your Pastor. There are a lot of different beliefs on eschatology, some even believe they will be making animal sacrifices.

Jesus said when we come out of the grave, no left no right, but we will receive resurrection of life, or resurrection of damnation. I wonder why people want some other little reward besides. Isn't eternal life enough??? It is for me, and all that goes with it, no tears, no pain or troubles, a body liken unto the Lord, a Crown of Glory, a glorified body and soul, robe of white.

I am going to that City where the lights are hanging high
I am going where no trouble cannot come.
Will you meet me there my children, in that city that lies four square
And we all live together over there.

BBob,

BBob,

 

I don't think this teaching is based on people wanting "some other litte reward besides" eternal life. I think that is an unfair accusation.

In fact, when I first heard this, I had doubts, but looking through scriptures convinced me otherwise.

 

Tell me some of them Marcia. I will look at them. Also, I am not trying to be unfair at all, sorry if I sound so.

You know I feel that I am in the minority on here, until a poll is run, where members don't have to give their name, and find that I am truly in the majority.

BBob,

 

I posted them already!

Is there a poll on rewards?

 

Yes, baptist doctrine teaches that the Lost will be judged at the Great White throne judgment...and the saved will be judged at the Judgment seat of Christ.

If we are judged on our works in order to get into Heaven our salvation is based on works not Grace.

Any doctrine that says otherwise is a false doctrine, and definately not Baptist.

 

I will just use myself. I suspect that some of my works will be burned, those who I baptized who were not saved.

BBob,

 

I think I brought this up before -- Matt 25 is thought by many to be a judgment of nations regarding how they treated Israel. That is why I asked whom does Jesus mean by "my brothers." I think it means Israel.

Matt 25 is yet another judgment - not the one of believers nor of the lost.

 

"Dreamed up by someone who doesn't want to face the truth?" Why do you say that? What "truth" are they afraid of?

I think it makes a lot of sense.

 

Basically there are three judgments:

(1) The BEMA seat judgment of Christ - for believers.
(2) The Sheep-Goats judgment - for unbelievers (before the millennium) During the Tribulation some will assist the Jews (just as some did during Word War II), but most will hate them and report them to the authorities of the Antichrist (one world) government.
(3) The White Throne judgment - for all unbelievers (after the millennium).

(1)BEMA seat judgment of Christ: 2 Corinthians 5:10
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."

This is akin to a civil court judgment, as believers we are acquitted in the criminal court which equates to the White Throne Judgment. We are covered by the Blood of Christ. This judgment will take place soon after the rapture/ressurrection of the righteous dead in Christ. The Rapture will take place before the Tribulation.

Many Christians today are under the impression that they as believers will not be judged because they are covered by the Blood of Christ (saved). This isn't exactly true, as the Bible clearly states that Christians will be judged:

Romans 12:19 - "Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord."

As stated by Dr. Lee Roberson:

We as Believers will have to give account for every idle word spoken, every offense, every evil thought, and every sin we've committed. We don't have to pay for them in hell, but we must give account.

1 Thessalonians 4:6 - That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

Revelation 14:13 - And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them."

(2) SHEEP-GOATS judgement: Matthew 25:32-34
"And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world."

This judgment is for those people who are still alive after the tribulation. The Sheep are mainly the Jews who are alive and saved and go into the Millennium in their natural bodies (as well as some Gentiles, but very few from what we can see in the Bible). The goats are the unbelievers who have survived the tribulation period and those who have persecuted Believers, or those who have turned their backs on Believers, refusing to help them in their time of need.

(3) WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT: REVELATION 20:11-15
"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

This is the final judgment for the unsaved/unbelievers, including those in hades (hell). Hades is likened to a temporary holding cell. Unbelievers also receive ressurected bodies before this judgment and they will also live forever - because Jesus rose from the dead, only they will live in eternel torture or damnation in their ressurected bodies. After they are judged they will be thrown into the Lake of Fire - their final eternal fate. (eternal damnation). And there will be unsaved people or unbelievers during the millennium because those who enter the millennium in their natural bodies will still procreate and give birth - the people born during the millennium will have the same choice as those living today though - either they accept Christ or they reject Him and on this their eternal fate is sealed.

After the White Throne judgment, God creates a new heaven and a new earth, as well as a new Jerusalem which will be inhabited solely by believers (no unbelievers will be present). It will be Utopia as Satan, his demons and unbelievers will all be in the Lake of Fire for eternity. There will be no more sin.

All this makes one wonder why a person would reject Jesus Christ as their Saviour. They only see the here and now and don't realize that the finish line isn't drawn here on earth after you have amassed wordly goods, but rather after you have died and dependant on the decisions you have made - particularly one decision: Acceptance or rejection of Jesus Christ as one's Saviour.

 

I have no idea how it would work, but if it's true that this is what Matt 25 indicates, I totally trust God to work it out. :godisgood:

And of course, I believe there is judgment of individuals. I think the "nations" being judged are not countries as we think of them, but perhaps the nations that went against God's people in the OT. Just a guess (not even sure if anyone who holds this view would agree with that). After all, some nations/peoples were judged as such in the OT, and Jesus does speak of certain cities getting harsher judgment:

Have you looked at Isaiah lately? There are several passages devoted to God's judgment on nations and cities -- Egypt, Ethiopia, Tyre, Babylon, etc..