The Justification of God

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by Protestant, Jan 28, 2015.

  1. Protestant

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    In closely following the Arminian/non-Cal arguments presented in the recent C/A debate threads it is apparent the central issue debated is ‘the justification of God.’

    Those who oppose the Scriptural truth that God from all eternity chose/elected some unbelieving sinners to salvation due to His free will choice apart from any consideration of deserving merit or worth on the part of the Elect sinner regard it grossly unfair of God to be gracious and merciful to some while leaving the vast majority condemned in their sins doomed to destruction.

    Such a God is a vile, cruel, hateful monster, neither loving, holy nor just, they say.

    The God of the Bible is a God of love, they insist, who is fair, just and equitable to give all men an equal chance to enter the Kingdom of God.

    To accomplish this purpose of ‘playing fair’ they teach that God has given all men ‘free will’ to make a choice either ‘for Christ’ or ‘against Christ.’

    Thus, in order to justify God, the Arminian/non-Cal contingency have invented the idol of ‘free will.’

    If a man, of his own ‘free will’, rejects Christ, the fault is his own.

    No fault is to be found in God. He is a just God.

    After all, God gave the man a fair chance endowing him with a ‘free will’ and the man ‘freely’ chose badly.

    By this reasoning God is now justified in their eyes.

    But if, on the other hand, the man had no ‘free will’, no other choice but to reject Christ, then the fault lies with God, who did not deal fairly or justly with the man.

    DHK wrote:

    From a human point of view the reasoning seems feasible.

    However, from a biblical pov the reasoning is wrong.

    As Christians we must strive to adhere to Scripture alone as our rule of faith and practice.

    Scripture declares man lost his ‘free will’ - the ability to choose to do good rather than evil - in the Garden.

    In Adam all have sinned. (Romans 5:12).

    Whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. (John 8:34).

    A slave is not a free man. He must do the will of his master.

    SLAVE: "A person who is the legal property of another and is forced to obey them." (Oxford)

    Man’s master is Satan, the god of this world. (John 8:44; 2 Cor. 4:4).

    Satan is the strong man whom the Lord must first bind before a sinner can be set free to believe on and follow Christ. (Mark 3:27; Eph. 2:2).

    He whom Jesus sets free is free indeed, both to believe on and follow Christ. (John 8:36).

    He whom Jesus does not set free has no free will, for he is still the slave of his strong master, Satan.

    This is but one of dozens of scriptural arguments proving the idol of ‘free will’ to be a false god.

    By 'false god' I mean a god who demands obeisance from his subjects, though he is no god.

    According to Arminian/non-Cal theology the Lord of lords must bow to the will of man, ever compliant to his will, whatever the choice.

    Thus, practically speaking, 'free will' is the greater god.

    Men Dead to God

    But to further prove the unscriptural nature of the idol of 'free will', let us consider the fact that Christ judges all unregenerate men ‘dead’ in their sins and trespasses.

    Arminian/non-Cals repudiate this truth.

    DHK wrote:

    Yet Christ equates the two when He stated: Let the dead νεκροὺς bury their dead. νεκροὺς

    In the mind of Christ to be spiritually dead is to be literally dead to God.

    The dead have no will, let alone ‘free will.’

    Neither have they eyes to see, ears to hear nor a heart to love God.

    They are lifeless, until the Spirit of God quickens - regenerates - them.

    And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
    2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience.


    Despite the ravings of the Arminian/non-Cals, faith is the miraculous result of having been quickened - made alive in Christ - not the other way around.

    TO BE CONTINUED………….
     
    #1 Protestant, Jan 28, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 28, 2015
  2. Protestant

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    Arminian/non-Cal view of Foreknowledge Justifies God

    In the Arminian/non-Cal view the foreknowledge of God is simply His knowing beforehand what free will choices man will make. God then predestinates those He knows will make the right choice for Jesus.

    DHK wrote:

    By holding to this unscriptural view its adherents have invented a definition of foreknowledge which, in their eyes, justifies God.

    No evil can be imputed to God if man is the one who makes the choice and God simply agrees and accepts man’s choice.

    However, if on the other hand, God is the one to make the choice as to whom He will have mercy and compassion, passing by and leaving multitudes in their sin, then, in their view, God is a cruel coldblooded beast.

    However, that is exactly the doctrine of sovereign grace taught by the Apostle Paul in Romans 9.

    Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

    Paul explains that man’s will has nothing to do with election; nor can man expend any energy toward being elected because God’s effectual calling unto salvation is strictly due to God’s mercy plus nothing in man.

    So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

    The cry of injustice is raised in verse 14 after Paul had proved the doctrine of sovereign election of grace by citing the OT.

    The Lord had determined to love Isaac and hate Esau before they were born, before either of them had the opportunity to live a life either for or against God.

    As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
    14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
    15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.


    Paul’s responds to those who view God as unjust for His choosing one over the other, before they had a chance to prove themselves worthy or unworthy.

    Election is not founded on justice: God giving man what he rightly deserves.

    Rather it is founded on grace alone: God giving some men what they do not rightly deserve.

    In verse 24 Paul explains all men come from the same lump.

    Paul had previously taught the damning sin nature of that lump.

    Therefore, no man is worthy or will be worthy enough to deserve salvation.

    Jacob deserved condemning justice, yet received undeserved mercy.

    The decision was God’s alone.

    Esau deserved condemning justice and received condemning justice.

    The decision was God’s alone.

    In the Arminian/non-Cal view election is founded on justice.

    God foreknows those who will make a righteous choice for Jesus and thereby elects them to salvation.

    God acts according to the righteous or unrighteous choice of man, giving man what he rightly deserves: Heaven for the wise and Hell for the unwise.

    In this way God is justified in the eyes of the confused and misinformed.

    A question arises:

    How can God remain just when He saves the undeserving?

    If the doctrine of original sin is true, which it is, then justice was served in condemning Esau, the sinner.

    But how is justice served when Jacob, the sinner, finds mercy and not condemnation?

    God is not only love – from which flows His mercy and compassion for the undeserving – God is also holy and just.

    God cannot mitigate the seriousness of sin, nor can He disregard it altogether.

    The Covenant of Grace

    In eternity the Triune God entered into an everlasting covenant which would reconcile man to God.

    Christ as Mediator would perform that which Adam could not do.

    By qualifying as our penal substitute through His active and passive obedience, sinless Christ, fully God and fully man, was made our sacrificial Lamb and scapegoat.

    He was our Lamb who died in our stead, His blood shed for the remission of our sins.

    He was our scapegoat, for the guilt of our sins was placed upon Him.

    Because Christ fulfilled the holy justice of God, having paid in full the sin debt of the Elect, God is now able to have mercy without negating His justice and holiness.

    Therefore, God remains just when He justifies the undeserving.

    For God is both the just and justifier of them that believe in Jesus.

    TO BE CONTINUED
     
    #2 Protestant, Jan 29, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2015
  3. JamesL

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    funny how two sides of a debate can both be wrong.

    :thumbsup: Kinda like arguing whether a bicycle has 3 wheels or 4
     
  4. OldRegular

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    Protestant

    Both posts well done!
     
  5. thatbrian

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  6. Protestant

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    The Justification of God: Part 3

    DHK wrote:

    What Arminian/non-Cals have conveniently omitted from their argument (in their attempt at proving God just by choosing the same destiny which He foreknows a person will ultimately choose for himself) is the fact that God had an eternity to alter that person’s destiny before Creation, had God been displeased with it.

    As Creator and Author of a man’s life, the Lord had infinite choices/decisions to make:

    Ethnicity……gender….health…….parental lineage…..date of birth……date of death.......cause of death......place of birth….personality…….intelligence…….height…….weight…….special gifts/talents……..career……..social status…….wealth or lack thereof, etc., as well as determining the many twists and turns all persons’ lives take.

    These are the same kinds of choices a writer must make in creating a screenplay or novel.

    Before publication the novelist can do numerous re-writes in order to better tell the story. These include plot changes, dialogue changes and character changes. He may even change the story’s ending/climax.

    Once satisfied that his work is ‘good’ the writer’s novel is then ready for publication.

    Likewise, the Lord God did not ‘publish’/create mankind without having been fully satisfied that His work was ‘good.’

    Adam’s transgression (although not ‘good) was all part of the ‘plot’ because it allowed God to reveal a much more glorious story: the story of God’s redemptive grace in His Son.

    As the Creator and Author of life, God knows the ultimate destiny of every individual ever born.

    Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

    No one comes into this world whose destiny is not known by God.

    Had God willed, Esau’s destiny could have been that of Jacob.
    Had God willed, Jacob’s destiny could have been that of Esau.

    For God had an eternity to do the necessary ‘re-writes’ and changes.

    But, alas, God’s decrees are firm and final.

    Those who are Elect were elected in eternity.
    Their number is fixed; their salvation certain.
    The Lord knows those who are His.

    Those whom God has decided to pass by, allowing them to remain dead in their sins, are those to whom He has willed not to show mercy and compassion.

    God is not obligated to show mercy to anyone.
    God is obligated to judge the sin of every man.

    The sins of the Elected were judged in Christ, our substitute.

    Those reprobated will themselves be judged for their sins which they willingly committed, not for their non-election.

    Perverted Definition of Foreknowledge No Help

    Despite the attempt to justify God by perverting the meaning and extent of His foreknowledge, Arminian/non-Cals still have a major hurdle to overcome.

    How is it that a God of infinite love, infinite wisdom, and infinite omnipotence cannot change the destiny of the hell-bound billions?

    Is it because He is not truly omnipotent, His wisdom lacking?

    Or is it because for reasons only known to God He has willfully determined all things which come to pass, including the destinies of the reprobate, so that they will ultimately glorify Him in ways we cannot even imagine?

    Furthermore, since God knows exactly the conditions necessary to save one person, His omniscience and wisdom also know the conditions necessary to save all persons. And His omnipotence can certainly make those conditions a reality.

    For with God all things are possible.

    Yet He does not.

    In the mind of the Arminian/non-Cal the God who does not will to actually save all people, but instead wills the eternal punishment of many sinners is a cruel, unjust monster.

    In the mind of the Monergist the God of the Bible doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

    TO BE CONTINUED
     
  7. Protestant

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  8. Protestant

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    Thank you much, brother, for your kind words!

    Strange how our Arminian/non-Cal brethren are eerily silent.......Perhaps they are being good Bereans, searching the Scriptures to see if the teaching be biblical?
     
  9. JamesL

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    I already commented that both sides of your debate are wrong. Apparently it went unnoticed.

    I'm curious....why is it that any discussion of Predestination (Romans EIGHT) is automatically diverted to Romans 9 by the Calvinist?

    Do you have an issue with staying on chapter 8, to discover how you and your opponent have both abused Paul's words?
     
  10. JamesL

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    Original poster is eerily silent all of a sudden

    Hmmm
     
  11. Protestant

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    The Justification of God - Part 4

    In their attempt to make God in their image and likeness for the express purpose of justifying His actions (thereby making Him more palatable to the human mind) our Synergist brethren have neglected to consider even more biblical truths.

    For example, they view God fair and just if He first gives all men an equal chance at salvation before determining their eternal destiny.

    They then reason that due to His omniscient foreknowledge God foreknows their choices and predestinates accordingly.

    Thus, the preaching of the Gospel is the ‘test’ by which men reveal their desire or disdain for Christ.

    However, according to Scripture God needed but one person to pass one test.

    That person was Adam.

    The ‘test’ took place in the Garden thousands of years ago.

    Adam failed and took with him the entire human race since he was our federal representative. (Romans 5)

    Therefore, the Gospel is not a ‘test’ by which God learns if we pass or fail.

    God already knows we have failed the one and only test necessary to prove ourselves.

    There is not one human being who, of his own will, seeks Him or comes to Christ. (Romans 1-3; John 6:44, 6:65)

    Had God replaced Adam with, say, JamesL or DHK, the results would have been the same.....miserable.

    TO BE CONTINUED
     
  12. Protestant

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    The Justification of God – Part 5

    The Lord is presently meting out justice for our original sin.

    Death is the penalty for that sin.

    It is due to original sin that even infants die.

    However, the first death does not satisfy the justice due the innumerable other sins committed during our lifetime.

    There is a second death which takes those sins into account. (Rev. 20:11 ff.)

    But out of the infinite love, goodness and mercy of God the Father, He has chosen/elected of His own free will certain innumerable members of the human race whom He wills to save from the second death.

    His choice is not founded on anything ‘good’ or desirable in the person chosen.

    His choice is based solely on His will, for reasons known only to God.

    It is not out of necessity, obligation or debt that the Father chooses to save many.

    For God is in debt to no man. (Romans 11:35)

    Had it been possible for mankind to earn salvation then their salvation would be founded on justice: good choice results in good destiny; bad choice, bad destiny.

    But the Bible clearly teaches salvation is all of grace:

    By grace are ye saved (Eph. 2:8)

    Jesus Christ is the grace of God. (John 1:14)

    It was Jesus Christ’s mission to save His people from their sins. (Matt. 1:21)

    The people Christ saves are the same people given Him by the Father. (John 17)

    It is these same people whom the Holy Spirit regenerates. (Eph. 1:19-20)

    And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
    20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places


    It is by the mighty power of the Holy Spirit that we are raised from spiritual death and given the faith to believe.

    We believe according to the working of His mighty power – not our mighty power.....despite the ravings of the Synergists to the contrary.

    TO BE CONTINUED
     
  13. Protestant

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    The Justification of God – Part 6

    The Gospel is not a ‘test’ which a sinner ‘passes’ when he ‘accepts’ Jesus in his heart, thereby earning the right to eternal life.

    Nor is God’s election based on the foreknowledge of how a sinner will ultimately respond to the Gospel.

    If that were the case election would be of justice: pass the test and receive a just compensation….eternal life.

    But election is not ‘quid pro quo.’

    Rather, election is of grace: Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

    Salvation is of grace. (Eph. 2:8)

    Forgiveness of sins is of grace. (Eph. 1:7)

    Faith is of grace. (Eph. 2:8-9)

    Repentance is of grace. (2 Timothy 2:25)

    Belief in the truth is of grace. (2 Timothy 2:25)

    Justification is of grace. (Romans 3:24; Titus 3:7)

    Sanctification is of grace. (1 Thess. 5:23-24)

    Perseverance in the faith is of grace. (John 10:28-29)

    And because every aspect of our salvation is of grace, we cannot for one moment take any credit whatsoever for it, or in any way share with God the glory of it.

    For our God is the God of all grace. (1 Peter 5:10)

    Synergists believe their ‘free will’ decision was the deciding factor in their being elected unto salvation.

    They believed of their 'free will' while others, of their 'free will', did not.

    DHK wrote:

    Herein is the heart of the matter.

    Synergists believe faith is their gift to God.

    In so doing they share in the glory of their salvation.

    Yet Scripture teaches faith God’s gift to the Elect:

    For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake. (Cf. Eph. 2:8-9)

    And God will share His glory with no one.

    I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

    TO BE CONTINUED
     
    #13 Protestant, Feb 1, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 1, 2015
  14. Protestant

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    The Justification of God - Part 7

    The Gospel of Jesus Christ is not a test which sinners must ‘pass’ to be worthy of Election.

    Rather, Gospel preaching with the accompanying power of the Holy Spirit is an effectual call given to Christ’s sheep whereby the Good Shepherd gathers His Elect, Jew and Gentile, into one sheepfold.

    Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
    2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
    3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
    4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.


    Christ calls His Elect by name – personally and individually.

    He gives them ears to hear.

    And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?
    4 Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:
    5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.


    Christians have the privilege of preaching the Gospel Call of Christ:

    But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
    14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.


    Though many are called and few chosen the Elect who were chosen before the foundation of the world for salvation are called with an irresistible, effectual holy calling resulting in their justification, sanctification and glorification.

    whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

    God’s Elect sheep will hear Christ’s voice, just as Lazarus heard.

    And they, like Lazarus, rise from spiritual death unto eternal life.

    My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me.

    TO BE CONTINUED
     
  15. Reformed

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    Agreed. The preaching of the gospel is the means of salvation. Creation testifies that there is a God, but that knowledge is not sufficient to save. Paul said it best:

    1 Corinthians 15:1-2 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. (emphasis mine)
     
  16. Protestant

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    Thanks so much for your valuable input!
     
  17. Protestant

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    The Justification of God - Part 8

    In a misguided attempt to justify the holy, good, gracious and loving character of God when confronted with Scripture which declares He will punish sinful men, body and soul, without let-up for all eternity, Arminians/non-Cals/Synergists have invented several ‘novel’ and extra-biblical doctrines.

    Synergists cannot comprehend how a loving God can torture, for eternity, men they love.

    Thus, their need to come up with a human solution to this disquieting dilemma.

    The Rev. Dr. Billy Graham has invented the doctrine of the ‘Gospel of Nature.’

    Unlike fellow Synergists, Graham realizes that the biblical doctrine of salvation by grace through faith in Christ poses a problem for the untold millions who have never heard of Christ or the way of salvation.

    In order to portray a just God who truly loves every human ever born, Graham has invented another Gospel. Pagans may say ‘yes’ to God simply by acknowledging His existence through nature.

    Nearly 20 years later Graham’s views have not changed. There are sincere good people in all religions that God will save apart from faith in Christ. This is another Gospel called ‘The Gospel of Being Good Enough.’ Below is a link to the May 31, 1997 interview of Graham by Robert Schuler on his ‘Hour of Power’ program.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCgpUPHkgc8

    I find it quite curious that nary a sound of protest is heard from the lips of DHK regarding these detestable Christ-denying heresies promulgated by this revered Baptist evangelist.

    And can I neglect to mention Graham’s hearty endorsement of Mystery Babylon and her demonic leader, the Papal Antichrist, who is leading multitudes into Hell as we speak?

    Our Synergist brethren remain steadfastly silent when a fellow Synergist’s heresies are discovered and exposed.

    Yet when a God-hating Servetus is punished with death DHK suddenly springs to life boldly and vehemently citing the unrighteousness of Calvin and his adherents.

    Had Servetus been a God-fearing innocent Christian put to death as had been the millions of martyrs by the command of the RCC, his argument could be plausible.

    But Servetus was a God-hater who was sent to perdition; just as he would have had he died a natural death.

    In the mind of DHK the death of Servetus was more heinous than the deaths of the millions of innocents at the hands of the RCC.

    As a result of his skewed thinking, he teaches we are to look for another Mystery Babylon and another unknown Antichrist.

    Calvinists are the ones Synergists need fear the most....as well as their cruel, merciless God.

    TO BE CONTINUED
     
  18. Iconoclast

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    JamesL

    It was not unnoticed.Everyone knows you do not have a clue what you are talking about, and have seen this act before. Everyone is wrong in Church history except you.

    There is no chapter division anyhow, and you again do not understand either chapter.
    :laugh::laugh:
     
  19. Protestant

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    Amen, brother Icon.

    Please know that your godly, Bible-centered posts are much appreciated and edifying.

    To God be the glory!
     
  20. Protestant

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    The Justification of God – Part 9

    The 2004 edition of the Ashland Theological Journal contains the essay, A Parable of Calvinism. Ashland Seminary of Ohio, the Journal’s publisher, was founded by the Brethren [Anabaptist] Church, thus the extreme anti-Calvinist (and anti-biblical) nature of the parable.

    It is, in my opinion, a classic distorted view of biblical truth held by Sovereign Grace believing Christians.

    Below I cite the parable in its entirety. I will then identify the numerous erroneous assumptions which contradict Scripture in Part 10.

    http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/ashland_theological_journal/36-1_101.pdf

    TO BE CONTINUED
     

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