The Kingdom "On Hold"?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by bmerr, Jul 31, 2005.

  1. bmerr

    bmerr
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    To All,

    bmerr here. The idea is occasionally advanced that Christ failed to set up His kingdom on earth when He came the first time, and that He will set it up at a later date, coinciding with the "rapture", either before, after, or during the "great tribulation". Have I got that right?

    I am aware that Pre-millenialism depends largely on this idea. But I wonder, if man somehow thwarted the plan of God in the past, what will prevent man from doing the same thing in the future?

    I just think the whole idea is out of line with the Bible, and maybe some would like to discuss the topic. Here's your chance.

    In Christ,

    bmerr
     
  2. hillclimber

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    Man does not thwart God's plans, either in the past, the present, nor in the future.
    The plan for universal salvation, the gospel of grace, wherein everyone that believes, or puts his trust in Christs finished work on the Cross, is saved, was the Mystery, hidden in the Father. Not even the Son knew of it. It is without a doubt the greatest mystery for mankinds benefit ever. I'm eternally grateful for it.

    The Kingdom will still come, just as the Bible says. There are some on this board that deny a real Kingdom in favor of an easier to comprehend Kingdom that is somehow spiritual and some claim, may even be in force now. That is completely unscriptual, and I've seen no proof offered in it's defense.
     
  3. Rachel

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    God never fails in anything. That was the plan all along, for Jesus to come to earth to die for our sins. Whoever believes man or the devil can twart God, has a problem I would say.

    There are so many ideas going around about 'end times', it's hard for me to keep them all straight. lol One thing I have a problem with is the newspaper theology. When people see what's happening today and try to fit it in with the Bible, Hal Lindsey comes to mind. Constantly changing their tune with whatever is happening in the world. uggg Oh well. It is interesting though to look at all the different views on end times and see why people believe the way they do.
     
  4. KenH

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    Actually, it is totally Scripturally as the church and the kingdom are synonymous. Just read the Bible. There is plenty of proof in defense of the position in it. [​IMG]
     
  5. bmerr

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    hillclimber,

    bmerr here. You mentioned Biblical evidence for a literal, earthly kingdom. I've not seen it, myself. Would you give some?

    In Christ,

    bmerr
     
  6. hillclimber

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    The old testement is full of it. The whole Bible is about Christ, pointing toward His coming. He will rule and reign from Davids throne. I'll get you some verses later, son needs comp.
     
  7. Michael52

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    --- Biblical evidence for a literal, earthly kingdom?

    It is already here, though, not everyone is in it, nor will they be.
     
  8. Michael52

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    Amen! [​IMG]
     
  9. prophecynut

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    Biblical evidence for a literal spiritual kingdom on earth:

    1 Pet. 2:5,9

    "you also like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."

    "But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation , a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light."
     
  10. prophecynut

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    Also Rev. 1:5; 5:10

    "and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and father..."

    "You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God and they will reign (over) the earth."

    5:10 is a heavenly scene of the Church at the rapture.
     
  11. KenH

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    Thanks. These Scriptures are referring to a process is has already happened and was ongoing at the moment - "are being built", "offering", "you are", "belonging", "called you".

    Thanks for making the case for me, PN, that the kingdom, the holy nation of God, already existed in the first century A.D. [​IMG]
     
  12. prophecynut

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    My hats off to you, very seldom do I receive compliments.

    The same is said of the Israelites, Exodus 19:6.

    Isralites, as the chosen people of God, should not be included with the chosen of the Church as one "holy nation." There are two separate nations, the OT nation of Israelites was not created "through Jesus Christ." Only the Church, after the crucifixion, was redeemed by the blood of the Lamb.
     
  13. KenH

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    All salvation, all redemption is through and in Christ Jesus by His blood since Adam was created on the sixth day. \o/
     
  14. hillclimber

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    missposted
     
  15. hillclimber

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    On above post. Do I have time to delete what I wrote and then spend time re organizing my thoughts to re-post? Or I guess I should say, How much time?

    I wrote missposted because I was afraid I would not have erased the original post if I tarried.
     
  16. KenH

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    In my experience I have found after about 15 minutes that I can't edit a message.
     
  17. prophecynut

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    Because of Israel's idolatry and rebellion, God turn his back against his wife and they became separated. Thanks to Jesus, one day she will be restored to her rightful place as His wife during the Millennium.

    Jesus came to redeem his people, the Israelites as a nation (Lk. 1:68) and to redeem a people for himself, the Church (Gal. 3:13-14; 1 Pet. 1:18).

    Isralites as a people have already been redeemed by Yahweh, he has taken them as his own people (Exodus 6:7; 19:5-6; Jer. 31:33).

    Gentiles who were "foreigners and aliens" were not "citizens with God's people," the Israelites. Something had to be done for the Gentiles to qualify them as "members of God's household" (Eph. 2:19). At one time Gentiles were "excluded from citizenship in Israel" and "without hope and without God in the world" (v.12). Thanks to Jesus their individual redemption has been bought by the blood of the Lamb, they are now "members of God's household."
     
  18. wopik

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    KenH

    I Cor.
    15:50

    Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
     
  19. KenH

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    Matthew 12:28 (ESV)
    But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

    Matthew 16:28 (ESV)
    Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

    Luke 9:27 (ESV)
    But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God."

    Luke 17:20-21 (ESV)
    Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed, [21] nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or 'There!' for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you."

    Col. 1:13 (ESV)
    He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
     
  20. hillclimber

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    That's of course talking about the transfiguration, Christ in his glorified heavenly body. He appeared for a short time that way to his disciples. Peter refers to this in IIPet:1.
     

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