The Lord Has His Way In The Whirlwind

I do not believe saying, "Have you noticed my perfect servant Job," is the equivalent of instigating punishment.

Furthermore, the bible specifically says that saying it does angered God towards Job's friends.

YOU are one of Job's friends, and I suspect God will be just as angry with you as He was with the friend's of Job.

 

Mark said, "Once again God has had his way in the whirlwind, wreaking mass destruction on the shores of Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana.

The wonder, to me, is not that God does these things, but that He hasn't been more severe in His judgments on us. These things are only a foretaste of the havoc He will wreak on this earth before the great and dreadful day of Christ's return."

Then Mark says, "Go back and read this whole thread and you will find that I already said we cannot always know why God does what He does and that all suffering is not to be considered punishment."

Let the spin begin

 

The Fact is that as Andy stated if God permitted it, He caused it by default. It is the Will of God what happened.

I do not know if this is God's judgment or not. No one on this board can say with 100% certainty. Whether it is or is not, God is just. Life itself is a gift from God and if God chooses to take it, he has that right since he is sovereign.

We know for a fact that God ordained the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 by the Romans because of Jerusalem's rejection of Messiah. No doubt many saints as well as sinners died as a result of this. God is sovereign and all of us here on the Gulf Coast have seen that power demonstrated.

 

This is a lie and blasphemy straight from the pits of hell. This sounds like what the serpent would say to Eve.
God allowing something to happen does not mean He caused it. God causes abortion, murder, child molestation, ifidelity, satan worship? This is the sad and heretical aspect of reformed theology, which takes the blame off of man and puts it on God.

 

This is a lie and blasphemy straight from the pits of hell. This sounds like what the serpent would say to Eve.
God allowing something to happen does not mean He caused it. God causes abortion, murder, child molestation, ifidelity, satan worship? This is the sad and heretical aspect of reformed theology, which takes the blame off of man and puts it on God. </font>[/QUOTE]God has the power to do something about natural disasters. Whether you want to think He was active in causing the disaster or not is irrelevant. He is responsible.

Shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?

 

Who suggested that? God did it so that His purposes according to election might stand. Period.

You're right. No carnally minded person will find comfort in thinking that. Those who are spiritually minded will remember that it pleased the LORD to bruise His Son, Isa 53:10.

The comfort that a Christian will find is in the fact that God spared not His own Son, and that He has a greater good, and an ultimate will in mind when He brings disasters our way.

The Christians who quote "lost everything" in this tragedy can thank God that He is teaching them to know how to suffer loss and in whatever state to be content, Phil 4:11-13. (Some will react to the next comment.) Many of the those Christians can thank God that He has torn their idols down. Where will they turn now? Probably the government, but many will turn back to God, and seek His provision.

The Christians that died are far more happier now than ever before. How can this insignificant little breeze even compare to the glory revealed in them?

The non-Christians who died...well, what can I say? I guess if you want to try to comfort them and look on the bright side, at least it isn't wet where they're at. The non-Christians who have suffered have nothing to be thankful for, and there is no comfort that can be offered. Only the warning, unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.

In fact, if God sent huricane Katrina to punish Mississippi and Louisiana, then wouldn't it be wrong for us to intervene in their suffering with relief efforts? So I trust that your churches will not be doing anything to help out, since they need to feel the full weight of God's judgment.

You neither know the Scriptures nor the power of God. When our enemy is hungry, we're to feed him. When he's thirsty, we're to give him a drink. You think mercy is offered to people because they deserve it?

 

God said it rains on the just and the unjust. Apparently some of you think the bible lies.

 

You know the reason that I reject the possibility of this somehow being God's judgement on the southern states is this:

Right here in my little county miles inland from the coast there are hundreds of people without power. Some have trees on their houses and cars. And even that suffering can't be compared to what is happening on the coast.

If I believed this was God's judgement, I'd be nice and puffed up right now that my biggest worry is how to get the leaves out of my swimming pool. I must really be doing something right for the Lord since He took care of me so well through the storm. But I know that is not true. I'm just as sorry a sinner as the next person.

While I am sure God had His reasons for allowing this storm, I'm not about to second guess Him as to what those reasons are. I'm not even sure we Christians should be having this conversation. I believe it is unbecoming to God and ourselves.

Instead of worrying about why God sent His judgement and who He sent it to, we should be worrying about how we can do what He has sent US to do. How can we best spread the word that there is Hope in the middle of this hopeless situation? How can we show His mercy to the thousand people that must be moved quickly from Tulane hospital before the flood waters reach their generators? How can we show His compassion to those left homeless in 3 states?

We ought to be ashamed of ourselves.....

 

Would you please quote for me where anyone said anything about this being the judgement of God?

Thanks,

Joseph Botwinick

 

If this isn't suggesting that Katrina was God's judgement than the writer of the OP needs to clarify.

 

Thank you. I must have missed it. I disagree with that contention as well.

Joseph Botwinick

 

I don't disagree with it at all. Whether one would like to think in terms of sin in general or specific sins, one fact remains. Had Adam not sinned, there would be no suffering.

The poster was exactly right. It's only God's mercy that we're all not frying in Hell right now.

 

Not everything God does is punishment for sin. One good example would be the blind man, and even more notably, Job.

Joseph Botwinick

 

No one is saying God is the author of evil but all things ultimately work for His glory and He is not asleep at the wheel or watching from a distance. You can build your strawman arguments and attack them all you want. I find great comfort in knowing this is the Will of God and that He controls the situation.

Was Katrina, His will? Yes. Seeing this awesome display should cause the unconverted to tremble realizing a more terrifying judgment awaits them if they die in their sin and cause them to repent of their sins. For the Christian it is humbling and allows us opportunity to witness for Christ.

 

This is a lie and blasphemy straight from the pits of hell. This sounds like what the serpent would say to Eve.
God allowing something to happen does not mean He caused it. God causes abortion, murder, child molestation, ifidelity, satan worship? This is the sad and heretical aspect of reformed theology, which takes the blame off of man and puts it on God. </font>[/QUOTE]Once again I have to defend myself against false accusations and giant leaps of reasoning from Webdog. I was talking specfically of weather and nature. It is clear from Scripture that God is in complete, direct control of nature. When it comes to the human will, it is more nuanced. (And you and I discussed that issue before, too - as I had to defend myself against false accusations of God being the author of evil.) This is not about Calvinism. This is not about election, limited atonement, etc. It is about biblical theism vs. open theism. There is not one aspect of the natural world that is beyond His control. That is the biblical witness on the matter.

 

This is a lie and blasphemy straight from the pits of hell. This sounds like what the serpent would say to Eve.
God allowing something to happen does not mean He caused it. God causes abortion, murder, child molestation, ifidelity, satan worship? This is the sad and heretical aspect of reformed theology, which takes the blame off of man and puts it on God. </font>[/QUOTE]Once again I have to defend myself against false accusations and giant leaps of reasoning from Webdog. I was talking specfically of weather and nature. It is clear from Scripture that God is in complete, direct control of nature. When it comes to the human will, it is more nuanced. (And you and I discussed that issue before, too - as I had to defend myself against false accusations of God being the author of evil.) This is not about Calvinism. This is not about election, limited atonement, etc. It is about biblical theism vs. open theism. There is not one aspect of the natural world that is beyond His control. That is the biblical witness on the matter. </font>[/QUOTE]False accusations? Here it is again in case my quote feature is broke. "The Fact is that as Andy stated if God permitted it, He caused it by default. It is the Will of God what happened."
I find it ironic how we claim to know the will of God. I recall reading the will of God is that NONE perish. Christians use the "will of God" statement too loosely. We don't know the will of God on every matter, including the weather.

In the paper this morning it was mentioned the huricane would have been much worse except for a miraculous gust of dry air from the midwest that weakened it to a level 4 just before it hit land. Was this the will of God, too? If God caused the huricane, why would He weaken it sparing lives? Jesus said a kingdom divided against itself fails.

 

In context you would know that in the region this quote was from, it is dry. Rain is A BLESSING in this quote, not a curse.