The Mark

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JohnDB, Jul 27, 2009.

  1. JohnDB

    JohnDB
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    I was kinda curious as to the many different thoughts on what exactly people think that the "Mark of the Beast" will be out there.

    I have heard everything from Social Security numbers to microchips to tattooed bar codes.

    What and more precisely why do you believe what you think the mark of the beast will be or currently is. How does scripture show that what you are saying is true? Is the mark even something tangible...or is it really a metaphor for something else?

    INquiring minds want to know.
     
  2. Johnv

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    Revelation can be difficult to get one's head around, due to the abundance of allegory and symbolism. Personally, I believe the mark is a spiritual mark, not a literal mark (notice that it's bestowed upon those who willingly choose to worship the beast). But it will be a mark that will be abundantly visible to others. But that's strictly my two cents, and there's nothing scripturally to suggest that one way or another.

    Personally, I think the whole social security/debit card/barcode/chip idea is hogwash, akin to Hal Lindsey.
     
  3. Thinkingstuff

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    I agree with John though it could very well be a certificate that the Romans required of Christians. He's an example.

     
  4. Tom Bryant

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    I tend to think that it is a literal mark because it's purpose is to identify those who follow the anti-Christ and those who don't. The Scripture certainly is non-existant about the form it takes ie, SS#, bar code etc.
     
  5. Thinkingstuff

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    I don't understand your last sentence. Are you saying the scriptures are unclear about the form it will take?
     
  6. Tom Bryant

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    I think it is silent about it being the literal number 666 or a barcode or even if it is visible to the eye. Like I said, I think it will be something specific in the forehead or the hand, but I don't think the Bible says what it will look like.

    Revelation 13:16-18 - And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, 17 and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.
     
  7. Thinkingstuff

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    The thing about apocalyptic literature is it is full of symbolism. 666 taken for the Greek rendering of Hebrew numerical values can spell Nero Caesar. Hand and Forehead were often renderings of What you did and thought. And some of the earliest text have us wondering if the number of the beast were not actually 616 which numerically indicate Caligula who errected a statue of himself in the Holy of Holies.
     
  8. Tom Bryant

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    yes, I know all those... but since i've been accused of being hyper-literal, just wanted to prove the charges right. :laugh:

    I don't argue end time stuff. I may be pre-mill and pre-trib in doctrine, but I am pan-mill in debating the subject, as in it will all pan out in the end.
     
  9. Thinkingstuff

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    I like that. It will!
     
  10. JohnDB

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    But this is a message from God to us.
    It is important isn't it?

    I know that there are many theories out there. Many more who claim that they have no clue.

    I know (from scripture) that Solomon had 666 talents of Gold being imported every year.

    I have also heard that 666 is the gematria in Hebrew of Caesar. (which is a fav amongst preterists)

    I have heard from that late preacher in Memphis who thought it was a microchip.

    I have heard that it is a voter registration card (the Beast being democracy)

    I have heard all kinds of things by well meaning people without a lot of substance behind it (except the solomon theory...which is an allusion to gnosticism...doing what you want even though you know it to be wrong...and no literal mark or stamp)

    Just thought that this letter should at least be discussed...it is prophesy and much of it is clear (for those who really look and study it) well...the letters to the churchs at least are clear. The rest of it is rather "difficult"...but I don't think it was meant to be easily understood. Otherwise everyone would understand it quite well.
     
  11. Winman

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    Interesting study.

    Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
    14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
    15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
    16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
    17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
    18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

    I think it is clear that the antichrist will rule through finances, not necessarily military might, or even through a police force. A person will be forced to take the mark, else they will probably starve to death.

    In Rev 13:17 it describes the mark in three ways, the mark, the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

    Knowing the technology we have today, it is almost certain technology will be used for this mark. Cash is almost obsolete now, as are personal checks. Credit and debit cards can be stolen. So, it is very possible that this mark will be placed on or in a person's forehead or hand. I know of businesses where a person punches in by simply placing their thumb on a monitor that reads their fingerprint, identifying them. So, it is very likely technology like this will be used.

    Verse 14 shows a little different, the anti-christ will be able to perform actual miracles. So, the fire coming down from heaven in vs. 13, and giving life to the image of the beast in vs. 15 might be real miracles and not a technological trick. But that is speculation.

    The number 666 is already on our dollar bill.

    [​IMG]

    The numeral is MDCCLXXVI where

    M= 1000
    D= 500
    C= 100
    L= 50
    X= 10
    V= 5
    I= 1

    So MDCCLXXVI equals 1000 + 500 + 200 + 50 + 20 + 5 + 1 which equals 1776, the year the United States was founded.

    But with any 3 digit number, the first number represents parts of a thousand, the second number represents parts of a hundred, and the third number represents parts of a ten. For instance we call .385" three hundred eighty five thousandths of an inch. And .20" would be twenty hundredths of an inch. Anyway...

    If you take the number on our dollar bill you have 9 numbers total, which can be divided into three groups of three. The first group is headed by M, which stands for thousands, with the numbers D and C following. So this could stand for 600/1000. The second group of three is headed by C which stands for hundreds followed by L and X which would come to 60/100. And the third group would be headed by X which stands for tens, followed by V and I which would come to 6/10.

    So it may be pure coincidence, but we would have 600, 60, and 6 on our dollar bill. Pretty amazing, because this is the only Roman numeral that will work out this way.

    And though people like to say the mark of the beast will be 666, that is not what the Bible says. It says six hundred (600), threescore (60), and six (6). Rev 13:18 tells us to "count" the number of the beast, so apparently you arrive at this number by counting, so the number may not be directly obvious, but arrived at by addition or multiplying. Perhaps it is arrived at by subtraction or division, who knows?

    It also says it is the "number" of a man, so somehow this number will seem to point out a specific man. I don't think it will be someone with 6 letters in each name as Ronald Wilson Reagan had. There are probably many thousands, even millions of people who have 6 letters in each of three names, this would not be a sure way of identifying this person.
     
    #11 Winman, Jul 27, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2009
  12. JohnDB

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    21 pieces stacked into a triangle actually has six on each of the three sides of the triangle.

    It is one of the number schemes in Genesis.

    but that in itself is a discussion of another thread...but how does this relate?
     
  13. Winman

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    21 pieces stacked into a triangle actually has six on each of the three sides of the triangle.

    It is one of the number schemes in Genesis.

    but that in itself is a discussion of another thread...but how does this relate?


    Is this question directed at me? Perhaps the 600, 60, and 6 on the dollar bill does not relate. Perhaps it is just a wierd coincidence. But the mark will be financial in nature, you will not be able to buy or sell. And with the world calling for a one world currency, perhaps the dollar will become that currency (not looking good at all at the moment). And whoever controls this currency will control the world.

    So, it may relate, or perhaps not.
     
  14. Johnv

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    God wants us to preach about the first coming. The second coming is not a topic pertinent to salvation or rightous living. It's not meant to be undserstood. Otherwise, we'd understand it.
     
  15. Winman

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    I don't know about that. I agree that it is far more important to preach the gospel and get people saved, but there is a reason God told us about this mark.

    Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

    I mean, the Lord does say here "Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast:" So, to me that says God wants us to be on the lookout for this man.
     
  16. Johnv

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    There's no disagreement that a reason exists. I'm referring to importance. I believe we give the second coming too much importance. It's important, but there are at lest 30 other books of the OT/NT that I would consider more important, and most of them go silent all the time.
     
  17. JohnDB

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    I know...I would really like to discuss the book of Hezekiah and 1st and 2nd Paul...but I find that nobody wants to talk about those either. :smilewinkgrin:

    They want to stick with all the popular ones like Zephaniah and Obadiah and Nahum.
     
  18. Johnv

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    Heheh! Yes, most people prefer the Book of 2nd Opinions over Hezehiah.
     
  19. Thinkingstuff

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    those sources should only be read in the Auhtorized Version 2009 King ThinkingStuff Version of the bible. The translators of that bible were more inspired than the autographs and were more faithful in changing it back to the original intent than the people actually recording the events. In that version it also explains the Mark of the beast. Its says: "Yea, verily twas a mark which the beast was (will be, or currently is) marked even its servants. Let one whom understands for the Number is either 666 or 616 (for which point and purpose is to confuse the reader in to making fanciful guesses). And the beast shall place GPS tracking computer chips on the right hand or the forehead of all those who wish to buy or sell. And all retail items shall be placed at 1200 % mark up." :laugh:

    I'm sorry my mischevousness again. It gets away with me at times. It was a joke for those not knowing. So my apologies up front. And for those who hold that particular view. I'm sorry but thats how I see your argument. I still consider you brothers in christ. You can consider me to be the younger one who likes to stick gum in your hair.
     
  20. donnA

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    The bible says it will be on the forehead or hand, leads me to beleive it will be visiable, what it is I don't know, so far, I don't think it really tells us what it might be.
     

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