The Marriage and the Marriage Supper

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Pastor_Bob, Apr 13, 2014.

  1. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob
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    Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
    8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
    9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God
    .

    Until recently, I was not aware that there were differences of opinion about when and where these two events will take place. Some say that the marriage of the Lamb takes takes in heaven and the marriage supper of the Lamb takes place on earth during the Millennium. My opinion has always been that they will both take place in heaven during the Tribulation Period.

    What are your thoughts?
     
  2. OldRegular

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    Revelation 21:1-3
    1. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
    2. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
    3. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.


    The marriage and marriage supper will not take place until after the Second Coming followed by the Great White Throne Judgment. As shown above the New Jerusalem symbolically the Church, the chaste Virgin Bride of Jesus Christ, and the total number of the redeemed throughout time, is united with the Triune God in the New Heavens and New Earth.
     
  3. prophet

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    Amen, brother. Run out in the street, and tell Pensecola Pete that, would ya? I hear he's still out there , at 90.
    His lil chart needs some serious work.
     
  4. Greektim

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    You live under a rock??? You weren't aware of non-dispensational views of eschatology? How are you a moderator?

    The idea of an eschatological banquet is part of one long apocalyptic tradition. It is found in the gospels as well as other ancient jewish apocalyptic literature. IN other words, don't read too much into it. It is symbolic. It is an "event" in the sense that it represents something bigger and better (new creation).
     
  5. Pastor_Bob

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    Kinda...I live right next to Little Rock. Does that count?

    Contrary to popular opinion, the prerequisite for being a moderator is not having all the answers, nor even knowing all the questions.

    I disagree.
     
  6. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Agreed, 100%. You won't get much of that around here, though.
     
  7. Pastor_Bob

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    I do not see how this passage relates to the church. Clearly, the Church is the Bride of Christ. This passage simply says that the New Jerusalem is prepared "as a bride;" not the actual bride herself.

    How do you reconcile that with John 14:2-3? "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

    If the marriage takes place at the Second Coming, Jesus would be coming to where the Bride is, not bringing the Bride back to His Father's house as is Jewish custom. Jesus told us that He is there now, in His father's house, preparing a place for us.
     
  8. OldRegular

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    I depend on Scripture not Jewish custom. Read the passage again.

    Revelation 21:1-3
    1. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
    2. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
    3. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.


    Does it not say that God is with His people, the redeemed of all time which is the Church whether you acknowledge it or not? There is only one Bride and that Bride includes all redeemed. The sacrificial death of Jesus Christ was the price of Salvation for every person who has ever been saved and Scripture tells us He died for the Church.

    Acts 20:28. Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
     
  9. Greektim

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    What? You disagree w/ the conclusion or the method of arriving at the conclusion? Either way, I have proof to back up my assertion. You have dispensationalism. I'll take the former. Have at the latter. I've been there. Got the t-shirt. Can't say the after taste is all that pleasant.
     
  10. Greektim

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    The house of God (Bethel) is not heaven but the temple. So you've already made a simple blunder by inserting neo-platonic theology in the Bible (the mystical, ethereal plane called "heaven" as if we are going to escape this world and live w/ God in his; contra the entirety of God's actions in Scripture to live w/ us in creation). But that is what fundamentalism does, all the while w/out knowledge of it.
     
  11. Pastor_Bob

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    As do I; however, the two very often meet.

    I most certainly do not acknowledge that. The OT saints were never a part of the church. The Tribulation saints will not be a part of the church.

    Why, then, is that Bride not mentioned in the Old Testament? Why, then, do no prophets prophesy about this Bride? The Church was a mystery in the Old Testament. The Old Testament prophets knew nothing of the church age.

    I agree 100%

    Indeed Scripture does tell us that He died for the church, and for all mankind, including the Old Testament saints.

    Be careful not to confuse Israel as the Bride of God (Hosea 2:19-20), and the Church, the Bride of Christ (II Cor. 11:2).

    Who do you believe will be the guests at the wedding supper?
    Rev. 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
     
  12. Pastor_Bob

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    If you mean that God works with man in different ways in regards to the fulfillment of His will, yes, I have dispensationalism. If you mean that men were saved one way in this dispensation and another way in another dispensation then, no, I do not have dispensationalism.
     
  13. OldRegular

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    Hebrews 11:8-16
    8. By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
    9. By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
    10. For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
    11. Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
    12. Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
    13. These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
    14. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
    15. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
    16. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.


    Read the above Scripture:

    Abraham looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

    Abraham and his seed confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

    Abraham and his seed desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

    ***********************************************************

    In Ephesians 2:19-22 we read more about that city:

    19. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
    20. And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
    21. In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
    22. In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.


    It appears that city is the Church, the Bride of Jesus Christ!

    *************************************************************

    Then a little further in the book of Hebrews we read:

    Hebrews 12:18, 22-24
    18. For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,

    22. But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
    23. To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
    24. And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.


    There is that city again and note what Scripture says of that city: the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, the general assembly and church of the firstborn, to God the Judge of all, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant.

    ******************************************************

    Now a little more about the foundations of the City. Folks if you take much of this Scripture literally you will be confused as many of the brethern seem to be. What we have in the above and following Scripture, if properly understood, is a picture that is far more glorious than anything a literal interpretation could give.

    Revelation 21:10-14; 22, 23; 27.
    10. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
    11. Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
    12. And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
    13. On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
    14. And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

    22. And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
    23. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

    27. And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.


    **************************************************

    Whose names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life, the redeemed of all time!
     
  14. OldRegular

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    Surely you are not accusing God of bigamy are you? I believe the Mormons make their god a polygamist but I am not sure without checking!
     
  15. Pastor_Bob

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    This whole chapter is about faith. Faith understands that this present life is a pilgrimage. Abraham lived in tents as he journeyed through the land of promise. He continually looked forward to that eternal city of God which "hath foundations." It is unmovable and sure. He will never have to leave that city. His pilgrimage will be over.
    There is no doubt that Abraham and other Old Testament saints had been given great light even before the Word of God had been written. They knew of the Savior; they knew of the resurrection; they knew of the Second Coming; and, they knew of the new heaven and the new earth. What they did not know about was the church age. The age where Gentiles would be given access to the promises of God as were the Jews.
    This is definitely talking about the Church, not the New Jerusalem.


    This is simply a contrast between the old covenant and the new covenant. Remembering to whom the author is writing is key to understanding. Context is everything. The old covenant was judgement; the new covenant is grace.

    This is merely the heavenly reality of what the earthly Jerusalem typifies. Of course the occupants of that city will be all of the redeemed, but again, this is a picture of the New Jerusalem, not the Bride of Christ - the Church. The Old Testament saints were not part of the church.
     
  16. Pastor_Bob

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    When you step across the line into the absurd, the discussion is over.
     
  17. OldRegular

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    They do, they do as the Apostles tell us:

    When the Church was empowered at Pentecost the Apostle Peter tells us:


    Acts 2:14-21
    14. But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
    15. For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
    16. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
    17. And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
    18. And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
    19. And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
    20. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
    21. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.


    Clearly according to Peter this was a prophecy regarding the Church whether it was understood or not. There is more than one prophetic statement in the Bible that is not understood until it is fulfilled. Consider what James, the brother of our Lord says:

    Acts 15:13-18
    13. And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
    14. Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
    15. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
    16. After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
    17. That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
    18. Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.


    Again a clear prophecy of the Salvation of the Gentiles and therefore the Church in its New Testament form. James says it well as follows: Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

    Now if the brethern of dispensational persuasion choose not to accept what Scripture teaches then that is their burden! But I suggest they take seriously what James says above, writing the words that God desires!

    I would also note what the Apostle Paul says about Abraham:

    Galatians 3:8. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

    Notice in particular that Paul states: And the scripture, foreseeing Now what did Scripture foresee?

    What Gospel was preached to Abraham. There is only one Gospel, the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Any other teaching claiming to be the gospel is heretical. How was the Gospel preached to Abraham, I have no idea and it is not something I question.

    Consider also what the Apostle Paul tells us, again in Hebrews:

    Hebrews 11:32-40
    32. And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
    33. Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
    34. Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
    35. Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
    36. And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
    37. They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
    38. (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
    39. And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
    40. God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.


    Paul gives us a brief history of the Old Testament Saints. Notice in particular verse 40. Why would Scripture tell us that the OT Saints would not be made perfect "without us"? The simple truth is that the Church would not be complete, perfect, until all the elect were redeemed.

    Then of course there is the parable of the good olive tree in Romans 11 showing that the Saints of the OT and those of the NT are one body, the Church, also called the Bride of Jesus Christ!
     
  18. OldRegular

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    It is you who introduced the absurd:

     
  19. Pastor_Bob

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    I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you inadvertently overlooked this question.
     
  20. OldRegular

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    The following Scripture posted earlier and which got no response, shows very clearly, at least to those who are not in the hole of dispensationalism, that the New Jerusalem is the Church, the bride of Jesus Christ, those whose Names are written in the Book of Life. That this Bride, this New Jerusalem, includes the redeemed of both the OT and NT is shown by the reference to the 12 Apostles and the 12 Tribes.

     

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