The Message

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Bible John, Jun 11, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Bible John

    Bible John
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    281
    Likes Received:
    0
    What do you say about this one? When I worked at Youth 4 Christ, they wanted all my bible curriculum to be using the Message paraphrase. Although I preffered using the NIV, they said that youth could better relate to the Message. What do you say? They forced me to do this, but my heart was not in it. So they eventually put me on another job, and got someone that had a dire need to create curriculum that met felt needs.

    But needless working on CERM has been nice. However I am not creating bible curriculum, just bible messages

    I know this is off topic, but does anyone here know of a good christian fundamentalist bible curriculum website for adults? I did have all these memorized at one time, but internship at Y4C was 2 years ago.

    I want curriculum on each bible book. I could care less about what most Churhc education parachurch ministries focus on these days, and that is felt needs.


    John
     
  2. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    78
    Being new you don't know this John, but we have had many threads on The Message. Because of that, and since the pages are now shorter than the old format, I am going to impose a 75 post limit on this topic.
     
  3. IronWill

    IronWill
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2006
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    0
    "The Message" unlike other Bibles, is actually a commentary, not a translation. It's rather interesting, but being as I don't agree with some of the theological viewpoints that are in there, I don't use it or recommend it.
     
  4. IveyLeaguer

    IveyLeaguer
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2004
    Messages:
    666
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Message is a paraphrase whose author, Eugene Peterson, advocates such things as mysticism and contemplative prayer. It is simply Peterson's idea of what he thinks the Bible should say, and it is flavored with ecumenical, New Age terminology and concepts, among other bad things.

    Peterson is an example of what I now call an emergent "New Age Christian". I expect his 'book' to become even more popular than it already is because of the publishing and marketing mechanisms behind it, but also because it is a 'natural' manual for the emergent, New Age Christianity.

    That 'The Message' could be accepted among some fundamental believers indicates a startling, widespread lack of discernment, but it also points to the clever subtlety of the ingenious deception that has now infiltrated Christianity. I am sincere when I say that the deceptive power of the Message and other extremely popular Christian material is something to behold, brilliant in fact, clever beyond my ability to describe it.

    Which makes this material all the more DANGEROUS. I have great respect for our enemy but I wonder almost daily what it is that true Christians, regenerate children of Almighty God, think the great deception is going to be like? Will it be something that is EASY to see? Do we really believe we will just KNOW? The Bible warns of this deceptive power that we should be looking for yet the 'gullibility quotient' of believers must be at an all-time high. I have even heard of mature, Christian believers reading The Message to their children, when God has provided and blessed us with any number of wonderful English versions of His Word.

    I don't have time to dig into this, there are a number of recent 'Message' threads on the board, but I don't recall that they addressed the counterfeit, ecumenical, New Age tone of the book directly so here's one example I ran across recently. For those who don't know, many New Agers believe in a "christ" who is in everyone, and one day will return to earth soon, etc..

    To get a better idea, read the KJV and NIV first and consider what they mean. IMHO, if this example doesn't bother you, even anger you, it should. If it doesn't strike you at first, keep thinking about it. It may be asking too much, but perhaps there can be some useful discussion.


    Colossians 1:26-27 (emphases are mine):

    KJV: ... the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his SAINTS: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

    NIV: ... the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints. To THEM God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. We proclaim him, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone perfect in Christ.

    MSG: This mystery has been kept in the dark for a long time, but now it's out in the OPEN. God wanted EVERYONE, not just Jews, to know this rich and glorious secret inside and out, regardless of their background, regardless of their religious standing. The mystery in a nutshell is just this: Christ is in you, therefore you can look forward to sharing in God's glory. It's that simple. That is the substance of our Message. We preach Christ, warning people not to add to the Message. We teach in a spirit of profound common sense so that we can bring each person to maturity. To be mature is to be basic. Christ! No more, no less.
     
    #4 IveyLeaguer, Jun 11, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 11, 2006
  5. Bible John

    Bible John
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    281
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re

    Thank you very much sir for such an intellectial response. It is kinda rare.

    I agree with you 100% about the message, and the Emergent flavor in it. yes I think in due time, the message may replace the NIV as the standard bible. But I could be wrong. However I have only been to oen church that used the Message as the primary pulpit bible.

    But I bet there are churches out there that do nothing but preach and teach from the Message.


    John


     
  6. TC

    TC
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2003
    Messages:
    2,225
    Likes Received:
    10
    The message is a paraphrase and is not a replacement for a legitimate bible translation. You were right in not wanting to use it. When I was working with second grade through sixth grade boys a few years ago I found that either a NKJV, ESV, or NIV worked about equally well.
     
  7. Bible John

    Bible John
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    281
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re

    Yes but they forced me to use it.

    I'm willing to bet money that in the coming years more and more emgent churches or parachurches will replace the NIV with the message as their standard "translation." You may not technicially call it a translation, but heck they do!

    Common language is not always what your technical college courses taught you.



    John
     
  8. StefanM

    StefanM
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    6,427
    Likes Received:
    72
    I would not have participated. If I couldn't preach/teach out of a real Bible (i.e. not a paraphrase), I wouldn't even think about doing it.
     
  9. TC

    TC
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2003
    Messages:
    2,225
    Likes Received:
    10
    How could they force you to use it? There is always a choice - even if it is goodbye, y'all will have to find someone else because I will not use it.
     
  10. Phillip

    Phillip
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,708
    Likes Received:
    0
    A hearty "AMEN" to your response.:thumbs:
     
  11. Phillip

    Phillip
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,708
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Living Bible paraphrase

    If I were stuck with having to use a paraphrase for one reason or another, I would use the old Living Bible paraphrase in place of The Message. It has its accuracy problems, but not nearly to the extent of The Message. IMHO

    I used to read it when I was young, but that was before the NIV came out and my NASB was a little dry for a very young man. I also used the Good News for Modern Man, even though it leaves out the "blood", it is a very easy read for children and I would devour its stories while the preacher would ramble.

    My point is that as a child I used those two paraphrases and I don't think that reading their stories hurt me any even though there are problems with both--I did NOT read the KJV much, it was simply too hard. I would pretend to read it, but I wasn't getting much out of it.

    The Message, on the other hand, I feel has been pegged and IS dangerous in the hands of children or anybody else.
     
  12. greek geek

    greek geek
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2003
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    0
    i agree with phillip. i do believe the msg is dangerous. there are portions that are a good paraphrase (not translation) but there are some very dangerous changes that affect the theology in the Bible. the msg is starting to gain popularity in my church. i gently cautioned against it in my sunday school class (i was very cautious how and what i said. mostly i urged people to think for themselves and to compare the msg with another translation. i did not lash out on the msg.) but in doing so i was attacked by a lady who apparently holds the msg very dear to her heart and took offense at being asked to think for herself, and to hear anything negative about the book that has it's own displays in the christian bookstores and music cd's, backpacks, etc...

    i have posted the following on the previous discussions about the msg. below is a link to a page that has 2 pdf documents that i created when i first studied the msg. if you're interested in why i have major problems with the msg then check them out. (but please remember that these were originally created for my own use. the first pdf has the problems ranked from serious to just annoying. the second is all my notes, whether serious problems or not...so ignore the little things i mention in that one and focus on the major problems.)
    http://pages.sbcglobal.net/k5ubs/message.html
     
  13. IveyLeaguer

    IveyLeaguer
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2004
    Messages:
    666
    Likes Received:
    0
    A very useful and interesting post, Phillip. I remember the Living and the Good News and still have my copy of the Living. Never read the Good News but I remember giving a copy of it to my sister, and only read the Living a little. I was old enough to use the King James and that's what I used but I recall the Living was popular in those days (late 70's). I didn't know anything about translations, or theology either, for that matter, and neither did most of the people I was around.

    But I would agree that The Living Bible and The Message are two different animals. Though both are paraphrases and both contain theological problems, the similiarites, for the most part, end there.

    Thanks for making this important distinction.
     
  14. Boanerges

    Boanerges
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
    Double G did a nice job on his evaluation of the Message. Here is another site that has a lot of information:

    http://www.seekgod.ca/topicnewage.htm
     
  15. Boanerges

    Boanerges
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here is a short test, that gives you and idea how the Message reads, in comparison to other translations:


    Below is a short test which will assist you in defining the accuracy of the Message paraphrase by Eugene Peterson, while also demonstrating your ability to apply the instructions and information learned from it in your daily faith walk. Please answer the questions below using only direct quotes from the Message as your answer. If you do not have a copy available, you can find it on line by clicking on the link below, and then scrolling down to the bottom of the page:


    http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/?action=getVersionInfo&vid=65


    1) How many components of spiritual warfare are found in Ephesians 6:11-17_____? Please list them____________________________.
    2) verse 11- We are we instructed to put on the ____________.
    1. verse 12- a) We do not wrestle against ______ b) We do wrestle against ______.
    2. verse 13- What should you take up? _________
    3. verse 14- What should you do with truth?________
    4. Righteousness should be used as a ______?
    5. v15- Peace should be used to shod/fit your _______?
    6. v16- Faith should be used as a ________ to _________________.
    7. v17- Salvation should be used/worn like a ________.
    8. Which other major weapon is spoken of in v 17?__________.
    1. In 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, what are the ten unrighteous acts that will keep you from entering the kingdom of God (heaven)?___________________________________.
    2. In the Messianic prophecy found in Genesis 49:10, the scepter will not leave Judah until ______ comes. (proper name)
    1. In Matthew 6:9, according to the text, who's Name is Holy?_____ b) In v10, who's will does Jesus instruct us “will be done”? _____.
    2. In Luke 12:37, what will those who are found watching be?_______
    3. In Prov 11:28, if you trust in your riches, you will ______.
    4. In Psalms 49:7, we are told that no one can redeem his _______ nor give God a ________ for him.
    5. In Psalms 51:9, the psalmist David asks that God blot out all of his ________.
    6. In Matthew 10:25, the translator of the Message has our Lord Jesus Christ refer to Himself as ____ face.



    Now that you have completed the test, the next step is to take any other of the popular translations and re-answer the questions above.
     
    #15 Boanerges, Jun 15, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2006
  16. faithgirl46

    faithgirl46
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2005
    Messages:
    2,778
    Likes Received:
    2
    Isn't The Message the Bible the 700 Club has offered people?
    Faithgirl
     
  17. Boanerges

    Boanerges
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
  18. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    "Now that you have completed the test,"
    for THE MESSAGE, "the next step
    is to take any other of the popular translations
    and re-answer the questions above."

    Alright, here we go with the
    HCSB = Christian Standard Bible (Holman, 2003)

    ...

    In Psalms 49:7, we are told that no one can
    redeem his _______ nor give God a ________ for him.

    Psalm 49:7 (HCSB):
    Yet these cannot redeem a person*
    or pay his ransom to God --

    footnote: *OrCertainly he cannot redeem himself,
    or Yet he cannot redeem a brother

    THis faulty question shows a compete lack of understanding
    of the problems of translating terms from one language
    to another. That word in Hebrew can mean 'person',
    'self', or 'a brother'. The HCSB is correct to footnote it
    and show the problem with translation here; something many Bibles
    do not show. BTW, This question also misuses the term
    'Psalms', one chapter is 'a psalm', certainly a specific verse
    is somewhat less than a 'Psalm', not a 'Psalms'. The Whole
    Book is called 'Psalms', a specific verse is called a 'Psalm'.
    Again, the education of the writer of this quiz is questionable
    and I sure have a tendancy to worry about the stability of
    those who pass the quiz along???

    In the Messianic prophecy found in Genesis 49:10, the scepter will
    not leave Judah until ______ comes. (proper name)


    Again, bad question. This question shows the complete lack
    of understanding of the maker of the question about translating
    from one language to another. There is always a quandry translating
    from Hebrew to English, for in Hebrew for many times the Name had
    a meaning, and a meaning had a name. Should the name or the meaning
    be translated?

    Genesis 49:10 (HCSB):
    The scepter will not depart from Juday,
    or the staff from between his feet,
    until He whose right it is comes*
    and the obedience to the peoples belongs to Him

    Footnote: *Or until tribute comes to him,
    or until Shiloh comes,
    or until He comes to Shiloh


    As can be seen, the HCSB shows the quandry of the translator:
    Name or meaning?, subject or Object?



    In Psalms 51:9, the psalmist David asks
    that God blot out all of his __GUILT______.

    In Matthew 10:25, the translator of the Message has
    our Lord Jesus Christ refer to Himself as ____ face.


    The HCSB has a 'HCSB Bullet Note' for *Beelzebul

    That note reads:

    //*Beelzebul - A term of slander which was variously
    interpreted "lord of flies," "lord of dung,"
    or "ruler of demons", 2 Kg 1:2, Mk3:22//
    Obviously the answer this mean spirited and ugly question
    wants is "dung face". Howerver the reference of our Lord
    Jesus Christ to himself was in the form of allegory, not a
    direct reference. This is a case where something is marked
    clearly as bad theology but used in error. This question
    tends so show the third rate propaganda techniques of they
    who created this quiz and they who propagate this quiz.
    I'd rather see the knowledge of the Lord Jesus spread
    than misinformation about the methods and techniques of
    God's preservatin of the Bible. This 'test' is a complete
    washout.

    Well, I just did a few of the questions.
    The 'quiz' is a third rate piece of poor propaganda made
    by, oops, I'm not allowed to use any descriptive word about
    an individual that I can think of, all of them negative :(
     
  19. Boanerges

    Boanerges
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is a junque book Ed. You and I both know it. I can't believe that you are constantly attempting to tear down the KJV, and then defend the Message. Go fiqure.
     
  20. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    You aught not to believe your statement.
    The 'questions' were an attempt to tear down my Bibles,
    not to defend the KJV, not to dis the Message.
    I use more KJVs than most people here, I don't tear The KJV down.
    I don't defend the Message, which is NOT a faithful translation
    and hense NOT a Bible.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Loading...