The moment of salvation. When is it?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by TexasSky, Aug 22, 2005.

  1. TexasSky

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    I used to think the belief that "water sealed the deal" was a Church of Christ thing. Now I see some Baptists saying that if a person isn't Baptized they aren't saved.

    So - I'm curious about the people on this board:

    When do you think a person is actually "saved"?
    When they first ask forgiveness of Christ and ask Him to be Lord?
    When they profess Him before men?
    When they follow Him in believer's Baptism?

    George Carlin used to do a joke about a kid annoying a sunday school teacher with questions like, "What if someone wanted to be baptised, but they were told to wait, and then they died, but they really wanted to be....."

    What do you TRULY believe the moment of salvation is?
     
  2. RightFromWrong

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    When they first ask forgiveness of Christ and ask Him to be Lord?

    The thief on the cross was NEVER baptised and Jesus said he would be with him in Paradise that day.
     
  3. Joseph_Botwinick

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    The moment of salvation is when God saves you.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  4. webdog

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    So I take it faith plays no role? God just waves his "saving" wand over someone? You reformers crack me up [​IMG]

    The answer is when "you believe (have faith) in the Lord Jesus Christ, you will be saved".
     
  5. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Of course faith plays a role.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  6. Mark Osgatharp

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    "Verily, verily I say unto you, he that hears my words and believes on him who sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation but is passed from death unto life."

    "Believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved."

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  7. rsr

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    "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved."
     
  8. Artimaeus

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    Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

    Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

    Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

    Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

    I believe it happens when God says it happens and not when man's reasoning says it surely must have happened.
     
  9. Victory in Jesus

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    Baptism is just a primary step of obedience...a public announcement that you have accepted Christ as your Savior and plan to continue following Him.

    I like to think of it like a marriage ceremony. Whether you get married in the JOP office or in a large church, you're still married as long as you've taken the vows. A large church marriage doesn't indicate you love your spouse more (personally, I think the money spent on a large wedding can be better spent on necessary household expenses or their kids' future education).
     
  10. Brother Ian

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    It is believing in the Lord Jesus and accepting His free gift by faith.

    I had an evangelism teacher once say that a person must "confess with his mouth." I asked him what about someone who can't speak. He insisted that they must confess with their mouth. He failed to rightly divide the Word in that case. In fact, Scripture clearly indicates a person must believe on Jesus Christ and accept His gift of salvation in order to be saved.

    Remember Judas knew and believed who Jesus was, but failed to accept His free gift. Because he failed to accept the gift, Judas will not be in Heaven.

    Have you heard the saying that many people will miss Heaven by 18 inches? That's the rough distance between your head and your heart. There must be a belief in the heart, not a head knowledge of who Jesus is and what He did.
     
  11. Ben W

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    When are you saved, the moment you genuinley seek God and ask to be.
     
  12. Magnetic Poles

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    I don't know if we can know this. Consider:

    1. Judas was trying to force Jesus' hand and have him become a political king. He apparently was not trying to have him killed. Judas was merely impatient for the kingdom.
    2. Judas seems to have greived deeply, maybe even repented.
    3. Without Judas' act of betrayal, would Christ have been crucified, the very thing that our salvation depends upon?
    4. Did Jesus' intercession of "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do" include Judas?
    5. Can we judge the salvation of another, even Judas Iscariot, when that is between the almighty and that person?

    Just put out there for consideration and discussion.
     
  13. pinoybaptist

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    I don't think you're describing salvation, Texas Sky.
    You're describing regeneration, the quickened soul, the living soul, as opposed to the spiritually dead soul who could not, of his own power, ask forgiveness or submit to Christ's Lordship and therefore profess Christ publicly by following him into the waters of baptism.

    If Christ is Savior, of whom is He Savior ?
    Is He Savior in fact, on account of what He has done for those for whom salvation is intended, or is He Savior only if men accept Him as such ?

    When the writer of Hebrews said in Chapter 9 verse 12 that Christ entered into the holy place bearing his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption for us, did 'us' cover only those who existed during the time of writing, or did 'us' cover such as should be saved.

    My point is that there are no more 'lost' souls. Christ has redeemed everyone for whom redemption is intended, though, in time, they are born at enmity with God on account of their being born dead in sins and trespasses.

    But, Christ has already paid for their sins, and already secured their places in heaven with Him and in Him.

    In due time, they will be quickened, regenerated, brought to life, and then they will do those things you asked.
     
  14. webdog

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    I don't know if we can know this. Consider:

    1. Judas was trying to force Jesus' hand and have him become a political king. He apparently was not trying to have him killed. Judas was merely impatient for the kingdom.
    2. Judas seems to have greived deeply, maybe even repented.
    3. Without Judas' act of betrayal, would Christ have been crucified, the very thing that our salvation depends upon?
    4. Did Jesus' intercession of "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do" include Judas?
    5. Can we judge the salvation of another, even Judas Iscariot, when that is between the almighty and that person?

    Just put out there for consideration and discussion.
    </font>[/QUOTE]The Bible also tells us that satan entered him. He became possessed. This cannot happen to a believer.
     
  15. StraightAndNarrow

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    I don't know if we can know this. Consider:

    1. Judas was trying to force Jesus' hand and have him become a political king. He apparently was not trying to have him killed. Judas was merely impatient for the kingdom.
    2. Judas seems to have greived deeply, maybe even repented.
    3. Without Judas' act of betrayal, would Christ have been crucified, the very thing that our salvation depends upon?
    4. Did Jesus' intercession of "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do" include Judas?
    5. Can we judge the salvation of another, even Judas Iscariot, when that is between the almighty and that person?

    Just put out there for consideration and discussion.
    </font>[/QUOTE]The Bible also tells us that satan entered him. He became possessed. This cannot happen to a believer.
    </font>[/QUOTE]In a very real sense Satan entered Peter when he told Jesus that He must not go to the cross. Jesus replied, Get thee behind me Satan. Wasn't He talking to the Satanic influence that caused Peter to say that?
     
  16. Jeffrey H

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    When you place your faith alone in Christ. This happens by God's grace through the power of His Holy Spirit. Faith is a gift from God and never do we manufacture faith on our own.
     
  17. RightFromWrong

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    StraightAndNarrow

    I don't think Satan entered Peters heart. The Bible doesn't say that at all.


    After Jesus had told the apostles that He must go to Jerusalem, suffer many things, and be killed and then raised on the third day, Peter rebuked Jesus saying, "Never Lord. This shall never happen to you!" (Matthew 16:21). Then Jesus said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men" (v.23).


    In this case, the "things of men" was simply Peter’s desire that Jesus not suffer and die! Probably each of us would react in the same way, or at least that would be our desire. We wouldn’t want to see Jesus suffer and die. But the "things of God" included just that, Jesus’ death on a cross.

    Peter had a heart for Jesus and he knew who he was, that he was God. Judas on the other hand never confessed Jesus and used him for his own gain. He stoled from the treasure and wanted to be part of Jesus's kingdom. He was never saved, just a wolf in sheeps clothing pretending to be saved. Again he was an example of all those today who act like Christians for whatever reason but are not.
     
  18. webdog

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    I don't know if we can know this. Consider:

    1. Judas was trying to force Jesus' hand and have him become a political king. He apparently was not trying to have him killed. Judas was merely impatient for the kingdom.
    2. Judas seems to have greived deeply, maybe even repented.
    3. Without Judas' act of betrayal, would Christ have been crucified, the very thing that our salvation depends upon?
    4. Did Jesus' intercession of "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do" include Judas?
    5. Can we judge the salvation of another, even Judas Iscariot, when that is between the almighty and that person?

    Just put out there for consideration and discussion.
    </font>[/QUOTE]The Bible also tells us that satan entered him. He became possessed. This cannot happen to a believer.
    </font>[/QUOTE]In a very real sense Satan entered Peter when he told Jesus that He must not go to the cross. Jesus replied, Get thee behind me Satan. Wasn't He talking to the Satanic influence that caused Peter to say that?
    </font>[/QUOTE]Satan influence, maybe, it's called the sin nature, but a true believer cannot be possessed by satan. The moment we are saved, the Holy Spirit indwells us. You think He would allow satan as a roomate?
     
  19. RightFromWrong

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    Webdog, not so sure the Holy Spirit indwelled believers till after Jesus died and rose again. Jesus said he would send the comforter after he died.
    John 15:26 John 14:18-19 and 26 John 16:7

    I do agree with Satans influence though.
     
  20. webdog

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    I was always on the cuff about this. I am not sure if ALL believers prior to pentecost had nothing at all, only the Law, or if the "comforter" Jesus sent was Holy Spirit 9.0 with gifs, tongues, healing as upgrades. :D I will really have to study this more, as these are only guesses.
     

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