The necessity of scholarship

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Luke2427, Jul 7, 2011.

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  1. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    In it's simplest form here is the argument: If you don't REALLY know what you are talking about you ought not talk about it.

    A little more detailed: When it comes to Scripture you need to REALLY know what you are talking about before you talk about it. Really knowing requires that you are educated. Educated requires that you are TAUGHT by PEOPLE who God has gifted to teach who themselves have been educated by people God has gifted to teach.

    But the gift is not enough in and of itself. The educator needs to submit his findings to a multitude of counselors before he attempts to educate others.

    That multitude should not be restricted to only one or two generations. That multitude of Christian scholars ought to span a wide berth of Christian history.


    If you are educated in Bible by Bible educators who have been educated by a multitude spanning generations of Christian educators then you are a Bible scholar.

    If you are NOT a scholar by this definition then you ought not speak on matters of which you do not know what you are talking about.

    This is important because the Word of God handled haphazardly by the unlearned has been the PRIMARY SOURCE of heresy and apostasy in every age.


    It is wicked arrogance to not have a real education on a matter which influences the immortal souls of men and yet speak on it any way. People who do this are the most dangerous types of people in the history of humanity.

    A good education does not NECESSARILY have to come from seminary- a fine seminary is a wonderful place to get such an education but it is not NECESSARILY the only place.


    Now, notice I did not say that anyone on baptistboard is doing this wickedness. Whether or not I suspect that some are is irrelevant to the discussion. But I am arguing that NO ONE ANY WHERE should do it.

    Some of you accused me of accusing people on baptistboard of doing this. I have not. I may or may not figure some are doing it, but I am not accusing anyone of doing it. I am arguing for a philosophy that EVERY Christian OUGHT to support across the board.

    The only name which I have used in this discussion was Winman who brazenly and repeatedly boasts that he does not need any teachers.

    If anyone else gets offended, it is because you are not thoroughly reading my posts on this subject or you are READING INTO THEM something I have not said.

    One final word. I am not saying that unlearned people are evil. That would be stupid. I am saying unlearned people who talk about things concerning God that they don't really comprehend are evil and wicked and dangerous. There is a huge difference.

    Very simple people (like new coverts for example) can share the Gospel and SHOULD and it is a sin for them NOT to share the Gospel. But ONLY that part which they comprehend. Like an ice berg the Gospel can make a powerful impact by the little bit that is easily visible and comprehensible on the surface. But when an unlearned person who has never dived deep beneath the surface by way of REAL and biblical education begins to speak on things too deep for them- THESE people are EVIL and dangerous. Jude and Peter and Paul has the harshest of words for these people and so should each of us.

    The rule: Only speak as deeply as your proper education has taken you.
     
    #1 Luke2427, Jul 7, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 7, 2011
  2. mandym

    mandym
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    And then there is the Holy Ghost for everyone else.
     
  3. Amy.G

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    Who made this rule? Do you have any scripture for it?
     
  4. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    The holy Ghost gives us teachers. The New Testament declares this repeatedly.

    To arrogantly bypass the teachers that the Holy Spirit has gifted to teach us is arrogance of highest and most dangerous sort.
     
  5. mandym

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    To speak of the ability to speak as if it is entirely dependent on scholarship alone is godless and the height of arrogance. Scholarship is man's standard not God's. When you can find this Scholarship in scripture get back to me. Your op rely's solely on man and leaves God out of it entirely.
     
  6. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    It's all through the Bible.

    Jude 10 is just one of a myriad of examples.

    But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
     
  7. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    Since no one has done this, I cannot see the point of this post.

    We are talking about SPIRITUAL education which consists of a SPIRITUAL person who is spiritual enough to have the humility to submit himself before SPIRITUALLY gifted teachers who span a wide berth of the history of the Church which is a SPIRITUAL entity that survives and thrives throughout the ages on SPIRITUAL teaching which comes from SPIRITUAL teachers who have been gifted by the Holy SPIRIT to teach SPIRITUAL people.
     
  8. mandym

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    You did///////
     
  9. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    Only if you think the Holy Spirit is not God.

    Gifted teachers are ones who are GIFTED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT TO TEACH.

    So if you are saying that I am leaving out God when I speak of Holy Spirit gifted teachers, then you must not be trinitarian.
     
  10. mandym

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    And by the way I have an education.
     
  11. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    Why post this if you are not going to back it up?

    Does it not amount to a 3rd graders squabble? YOU DID! YOU DID!

    I know you are but what am I!

    Do you deny that a Christian ought to know what he is talking about before he talks about it??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    That is unthinkable!

    Do you deny that all Christians ought to seek to be taught by Spirit gifted teachers???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    I cannot see how ANY reasonable person could argue such a thing.
     
  12. mandym

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    The only thing mentioned in the op is scholarship and scholarship alone.
     
  13. mandym

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    The op is there for everyone to see.
     
  14. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth
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    Wisdom teaches us this, or should.

    We should know what we are talking about. Also, through discussion we can learn more.

    Fools speak like they know what they are talking of when they do not.

    I think the OP is about the facilitation toward some within Christendom being considered ignorant by others on the outside (and from some within) due to not knowing their Bibles, and misapplying truth, misrepresenting truth, and misquoting truth, and misunderstanding truth, and holding bizzare unscriptural beliefs not supported by the Scriptures. This is what the OP sets out to discuss.

    Although some may not like Luke2427s methods of saying things, it is the personality God gave him, and none of us are perfect, so to debate this as Christian we should look past our personal opinions and debate the subject matter.

    As ministers, we have heard some of the most foolish unthought out conclusions from Scripture. These folks are whom he is addressing in the OP.

    - Peace
     
  15. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    Who said you didn't?

    Who said a word about you?

    In fact, I don't know if I even knew you existed before you posted here?

    Why are you making it personal?

    Do you feel like you might be the kind of person I am outright condemning as evil- the kind of person who spouts off haphazardly about matters of great import while lacking the humility to FIRST receive proper training on those matters??

    Could that be why you posted this?

    Maybe it is not me who is making this personal.

    Maybe this is resonating with some folks who FEEL like they are of the ilk that I am condemning.
     
  16. Luke2427

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    GIFTED teachers. That's in the OP.

    Who ALONE can gift teachers???

    The Holy Spirit- obviously.

    And I noticed you avoided answering the questions.
     
  17. sag38

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    So Luke, please share with us when you arrived at the level of education and scholarship that allows you the ability to teach the rest of us? What is it that makes you a Spirit gifted teacher? Are you a Spirit gifted teacher? Are you applying the same level of standards on yourself that you are applying to everyone else? One sign of a truly Spiritually gifted teacher is humility. All I sense in this thread is a superior attitude (arrogance) that does not come from the Spirit but from a deluded self that's not really interested in learning but subjugating everyone else to your personal interpretation of the way things should be.
     
    #17 sag38, Jul 7, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 7, 2011
  18. matt wade

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    Sounds like Luke is the second coming of the Catholic church. You probably shouldn't even let us uneducated masses read the Bible. You can just interpret it for us all the time.
     
  19. Luke2427

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    You said God is no where in the OP.
    Here is the third sentence in the OP:

    TAUGHT by PEOPLE who God has gifted to teach who themselves have been educated by people God has gifted to teach.

    Then I go on and ON talking about that gift to teach being ESSENTIAL in a proper Bible education.

    Did you even READ the post that you are attacking??????????????????? ????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????? ????????????????????? ???????????????????? ??????????????
     
  20. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    That's CLEARLY and OBVIOUSLY the dead level OPPOSITE of what I am saying.

    I do not know how you could have missed it this badly.

    I am advocating that EVERYONE become a bible scholar by, in part, being educated by God gifted teachers. That is the OPPOSITE of what the Catholic church wanted. They did NOT want a Bible educated clergy. I am saying that ALL the clergy should seek to become Bible Scholars.

    How ANYONE can be against that is beyond me!
     
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