The Neocon Power Grab is Crumbling

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by KenH, Jun 11, 2004.

  1. KenH

    KenH
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    Another great article by Patrick J. Buchanan at LINK .

    Excerpts:

    "The White House dumping of Chalabi represents a rout for the neocons, who had all their chips on this pony. For Chalabi had promised them that, once installed in power, he would recognize Israel and resurrect the old Mosul-to-Haifa pipeline."

    "The Night of the Long Knives has begun. The military and CIA are stabbing the neocons front, back and center, laying responsibility on them for the mess in Iraq. Meanwhile, the Balkan wars of the American Right have re-ignited, with even the normally quiescent Beltway conservatives scrambling to get clear of the neocon encampment before the tomahawking begins."

    "What is our post-Iraq foreign policy to be? After we come home from Iraq, how far does retrenchment go? If the neocons are being stuffed into the Hefty bags of history, who moves up next?"
     
  2. Joseph_Botwinick

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    I am curious about what your feelings about this are. Do you think it would have been good or bad for Chalabi to recognize Israel? Is this the anti-semitic slur that Buchannan loves to tout that we are fighting Israel's war in Iraq for them, and therefore it is not worthy of our efforts and lives? It surely must be all Israel's fault, right? I wonder if Peroutka agrees with Buchannan on this.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  3. JGrubbs

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    I didn't see the words "fighting Israel's war" anywhere in the article.
     
  4. Joseph_Botwinick

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    I think it is clear to me at least that this is the implication. But I will concede that this is not what he actually explicitly said. However, I would like to get your ideas on why Buchannan thinks it would have been a bad thing for Chalabi to recognize Israel?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  5. church mouse guy

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    Joseph, you are correct! Buchannan left the GOP long ago. Everytime you hear him anymore he speaks against Israel. However, one wonders if Buchannan will join the CP since he is a devout RCC? In fact, I think that his opposition to the war in Iraq is merely political support for Pope John Paul II, who is against the war and who even lectured President Bush about the war before he accepted some award from Bush. Bush just let the Pope talk and then let the subject drop, as you know.

    I would like to know why it is the business of the CP who leads the GOP? Bush is a supply-sider who supports Israel and advocates foreign aid for Israel.

    By the way, Chalabi is charged with betraying us to Iran and was charged in Jordan of ripping off his own bank there.

    Victor Hanson Davis, military historian, has reported that neocon is now used as a slur for Jew. Buckley says that he does not think that Buchannan is anti-Semitic, but I think that Buchannan does seem to belong to that branch of the RCC that is not exactly pro-Israel.
     
  6. LadyEagle

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  7. church mouse guy

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    To define neocon, I went to a search engine. Here is something by Max Boot that was in the Wall Street Journal as a guest opinion article:

    'When Buchananites toss around "neoconservative"--and cite names like Wolfowitz and Cohen--it sometimes sounds as if what they really mean is "Jewish conservative." This is a malicious slur on two levels. First, many of the leading neocons aren't Jewish; Jeane Kirkpatrick, Bill Bennett, Father John Neuhaus and Michael Novak aren't exactly menorah lighters. Second, support for Israel--a key tenet of neoconservatism--is hardly confined to Jews; its strongest constituency in America happens to be among evangelical Christians.'
     
  8. church mouse guy

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    David Brooks says 'con is short for "conservative" and neo is short for "Jewish."'
     
  9. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Actually, I think neo means "new".

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  10. JGrubbs

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    The key here being "opinion article". You can look up the real definition of necon if you want, it has nothing to do with Israel or "Jesish conservatives".
     
  11. JGrubbs

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    Would that mean neonazis are "Jewish Nazis"??
     
  12. Joseph_Botwinick

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    NP,

    Would you mind addressing my question?

    Thank You,

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  13. JGrubbs

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    After reading the article, I don't know if Buchannan meant that it was a bad think for Chalabi to recognize Israel, or if he was just saying that the Whitehouse was counting on him to do this, to make their "roadmap to peace" in the middle east closer to a reality.
     
  14. church mouse guy

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    Would that mean neonazis are "Jewish Nazis"?? </font>[/QUOTE]Not exactly. Don't you get the point of what Brooks is saying? Actually, many of the original so-called neocons were Jewish. They were Democrats who switched to the GOP. The CP would not be neocon because they want to cut off aid to Israel as unconstitutional.
     
  15. Joseph_Botwinick

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    I know what I think based on what I have learned about his feeling about the Jews. But, that has been hashed and rehashed here on this forum already. If I can go back and find a link to the thread, I will post it when I can.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  16. JGrubbs

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    I don't know who Brooks is, but I do know that the term Neoconservative has nothing to do with one being Jewish. Columnists and talk show hosts can say what ever they want, but they can't change the meaning of a word.

    Here is the actuall deffinition of Neoconservatism:

    Neoconservatism refers to the political goals and ideology of the "new conservatives" in the United States, characterized by hawkish views on foreign policy and a lesser emphasis on social issues and minimal government than other strains of American conservatism. The "newness" refers either to being new to American conservatism (often coming from liberal or socialist backgrounds) or to being part of a "new wave" of conservative thought and political organization. In both meanings the term is sometimes used pejoratively.

    More specifically, the term refers to journalists, pundits, policy analysts, and institutions affiliated with policy think tanks such as the American Enterprise Institute (AEI) and the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) and periodicals such as Commentary and The Weekly Standard. The neoconservatives, often dubbed the neocons by supporters and critics alike, are credited with (or blamed for) influencing U.S. foreign policy, especially under the administrations of Ronald Reagan (1981-1989) and George W. Bush (2001-present).
     
  17. church mouse guy

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    That is the original definition. Ronald Reagan came over from the Democrat Party. Some of the first to leave the Democrats were Jewish intellectuals. You can't expect Jews to join the CP, can you?

    However, this is 25 years later.

    I don't think that you use it as Jew, but it is not friendly when used by you, NP, and by KenH, is it?
     
  18. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Are you saying that Reagan was a neocon? I thought Ken made it very clear that anyone who even implies that ought to be ashamed and that it was in no way true.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  19. JGrubbs

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    Constitution Party founder Howard Phillips is a former Jew, who found Jesus Christ and converted to Christianity.

    I use it to describe a "conservative" who is more concerned with globalization than they are with domestic fiscal and social conservatism.

    If that is "not friendly", then so be it.
     
  20. church mouse guy

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    Michael Medved says convincingly that Ronald Reagan was the prototype neo-con because he left the liberal Democrat Party, switched to the GOP, had supply-side economics, and was a strong supporter and friend to Israel, whom he sent US foreign aid.

    What do you think of that, Joseph?
     

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