The NKJ Uses Awkward English

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Rippon, Jul 17, 2006.

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  1. Rippon

    Rippon
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    In this thread I am not at all doubting the soundness of the translation of the NKJV . It is theologically solid . I am addressing the wording of the version . It is not , nor has it ever been , a spoken form of English . It is not natural in its delivery . Something that stilted is deficient .

    I had a thread on Archaic Words in the KJV . It was stopped at the conclusion of Isaiah . It is a shame that you all will not be able to see gems like :

    Why trimmest thou thy way to seek love ?

    We are spoiled .

    My bowels , my bowels !

    They are sottish children.

    And none shall fray them away .

    They must needs be borne , because they cannot go .

    A wonderful thing . [ meaning = a terrible thing ]

    The stock is a doctrine of vanities .

    The noise of the bruit is come .

    I try the reins .

    Very naughty figs . [ a classic ]


    Many of the same phrases in the KJV are in the NKJ . At times the wording is made clearer . That is a good thing . But much of the language remains wooden and mechanical . The NKJ wording is above and the TNIV wording is below .

    From The Book Of Jeremiah ( chapters 1 - 10 )

    1:8 Do not be afraid of their faces .

    Do not be afraid of them .

    1:17 Do not be dismayed before their faces .

    Do not be terrified by them

    2:2 The kindness of your youth , The love of your betrothal

    the devotion of your youth , how as a bride you loved me

    2:8 And walked after things that do not profit .

    following worthless idols .

    2:19 Your own wickedness will correct you

    Your wickedness will punish you

    2:25 For I have loved aliens

    I love foreign gods

    2:33 Why do you beautify your way to seek love ?

    How skilled you are at pursuing love !

    2:34 I have not found it by secret search , But plainly on all these things .

    though you did not catch them by breaking in . Yet in spite of all this

    2:36 Why do you gad about so much to change your way ?

    Why do you go about so much , changing your ways ?

    3:2 Where have you not lain with men ?

    Is there any place where you have not been ravished ?

    3:25 And our reproach covers us .

    and let our disgrace cover us .

    4:13 we are plundered !

    We are ruined !

    4:20 And my curtains in a moment .

    my shelter in a moment .

    6:11 The aged with him who is full of days .

    and the old , those weighed down with years .

    7:33 And no one will frighten them away .

    and there will be no one to frighten them away .

    10:8 A wooden idol is a worthless doctrine .

    taught by worthless wooden idols .
     
  2. Rippon

    Rippon
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    Jeremiah 13 -- 29

    13:22 Your skirts have been uncovered , Your heels made bare .

    your skirts have been torn off and your body mistreated

    14:9 Why should You be like a man astonished

    Why are you like someone taken by surprise

    15:6 I am weary of relenting !

    I am tired of holding back .

    15:17 I did not sit in the assembly of the mockers

    I never sat in the company of revelers

    16:7 nor shall men give them the cup of consolation

    nor will anyone give them a drink to console them .

    18:10 I will relent concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it .

    I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it .



    18:16 A perpetual hissing

    lasting scorn



    19:8 I will make this city desolate and a hissing

    make it an object of horror and scorn

    20:10 Perhaps he can be induced

    Perhaps he will be deceived

    22:15 Shall you reign because you enclose yourself in cedar ?

    Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar ?

    22:22 The wind shall eat up all your rulers

    The wind will drive all your shepherds away

    23:13 And caused My people Israel to err .

    and led my people Israel astray .

    25:8 you have not heard my words

    you have not listened to my words

    25:9 make them an astonishment , a hissing , scorn , and perpetual desolations .

    make them an object of horror and and scorn , and an everlasting ruin .

    25:34 You shall fall like a precious vessel .

    you will fall like the best of the rams .

    27:19 the remainder of the vessels that remain in this city

    the other articles that are left in this city

    29:8 nor listen to the dreams which you cause to be dreamed .

    Do not listen to the dreams you encourage them to have .
     
  3. EdSutton

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    Guess we could assume you are not the local President of the NKJV 'fan club', Hunh?:laugh::laugh::applause:

    Ed
     
  4. Rippon

    Rippon
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    I am no cheerleader of the NKJ , that's right . It is a serviceable translation . But it just doesn't cut the proverbial mustard . If it had less biblish and a more natural flow -- it would be better .

    By the way , would any of you like to see it upgraded ? Do any of you know if such plans are in the works ? It has gone a long time with no improvements .
     
  5. Rippon

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    Jeremiah 30 -- 39

    30:14 All your lovers

    All your allies

    30:18 And the palace shall remain according to its own plan .

    and the palace will stand in its proper place .

    30:19 I will also glorify them

    I will bring them honor

    30:24 In the latter days you will consider it .

    In days to come you will understand this .

    31:5 eat them as ordinary food

    enjoy their fruit .

    31:12 Streaming to the goodness of the Lord --

    rejoice in the bounty of the Lord --

    31:14 I will satiate the soul of the priests

    I will satisfy the priests with abundance

    31:17 shall come back to their own border

    will return to their own land

    31:19 Surely , after my turning , I repented ; And after I was instructed , I struck myself on the thigh .

    After I strayed , I repented ; after I came to understand , I beat my breast .

    31:20 Is he a pleasant child ?

    the child in whom I delight ?

    31:22 A woman shall compass a man .

    the woman will return to the man .

    31:35 The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night

    who decrees the moon and the stars to shine by night

    34:17 I proclaim a liberty to you , says the Lord -- to the sword

    I now proclaim 'freedom' for you , declares the Lord -- 'freedom' to fall by the sword

    35:19 shall not lack a man to stand before Me forever .

    will never fail to have a descendant to serve me .

    37:14 brought him to the princes

    brought him to the officials

    38:16 who made our very souls

    who has given us breath

    39:18 your life shall be as a prize to you

    but will escape with your life
     
  6. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    This is a debate forum - not a place for postings one's research on wordings he finds difficult in a particular translation.

    You have made your point in the debate Rippon. You find the KJV and the NKJV cumbersome and difficult for the average reader to understand.

    Now that issue is open for debate on this thread.

    When you complete your studies on the supposed difficult renderings perhaps you could post them someplace online and refer us there for discussion back here.

    Roger
    C4K
    Moderator
     
  7. Rippon

    Rippon
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    Why not let me continue on the book of Jeremiah ? Then , when I'm done folks can debate whether or not the NKJV rendering is better than the TNIV wording ? People may come at this with the idea that even if the NKJ is unwieldy -- it may be more accurate .

    I will not post again on this thread unless you give me the go-ahead .
     
  8. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Agreed - one book at a time, and if there is not enough interest in discussing that book then we will try another method to discuss your findings.
     
  9. Rippon

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    Okay , I'll be back to finish out Jeremiah in about 14 hours or so .

    Thanks
     
  10. Rippon

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    Jeremiah 42 -- 49

    42:18 And you shall be an oath , an astonishment

    You will be a curse an an object of reproach

    44:19 we made cakes for her , to worship her , and pour out drink offerings to her

    we were making cakes impressed with her image and pouring out drink offerings to her ?

    45:3 I fainted in my sighing

    I am worn out with groaning

    46:7 Whose waters move like the rivers ?

    like rivers of surging waters ?

    46:10 The sword shall devour ; It shall be satiated

    The sword shall devour till it is satisfied

    46:17 is but a noise

    only a loud noise

    46:28 I will rightly correct you

    I will discipline you

    47:5 Baldness has come upon Gaza

    Gaza will shave her head in mourning

    48:11 He has settled on his dregs

    like wine left on its dregs

    48:26 he shall also be in derision .

    let her be an object of ridicule .

    48:30 I know his wrath , says the Lord , But it is not right ; His lies have made nothing right .

    I know her insolence but it is futile , declares the Lord , and her boasts accomplish nothing .

    48:32 Your plants have gone over the sea

    Your branches spread as far as the sea

    48:38 A general lamentation ... like a vessel in which is no pleasure

    in the public squares there is nothing but mourning ... like a jar that no one wants

    48:45 The crown of the head of the sons of tumult .

    the skulls of the noisy boasters .

    49:1 Why then does Milcom inherit Gad

    Why then has Molek taken possession of Gad ?

    49:2 It shall be a desolate mound

    it will become a mound of ruins

    49:4 Your flowing valley

    your valleys so fruitful

    49:10 I have uncovered his secret places

    I will uncover his hiding places

    49:16 Your fierceness has deceived you

    the pride of your heart have deceived you

    49:17 shall be an astonishment ... and will hiss at all its plagues .

    will be appalled and will scoff because of all its wounds .

    49:19 from the floodplain of the Jordon

    from Jordon's thickets

    49:20 the least of the flock shall draw them out

    The young of the flock will be dragged away

    49:25 Why is the city of praise not deserted

    Why has the city of renown not been abandoned

    49:38 princes

    officials
     
  11. Rippon

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    Jeremiah 50 -- 51

    50:7 We have not offended ... the habitation of justice

    We are not guilty ... their verdant pasture

    50:11 you bellow like bulls

    and neigh like stallions

    50:15 She has given her hand

    She surrenders

    50:19 His soul shall be satisfied

    their appetite will be satisfied

    50:26 cast her up

    pile her up

    50:34 disquiet the inhabitants of Babylon

    unrest to those who live in Babylon

    50:39 and the ostriches shall dwell in it .

    and there the owl will dwell

    51:1 a destroying wind

    the spirit of a destroyer

    51:10 The Lord has revealed our righteousness .

    The Lord has vindicated us

    51:11 Make the arrows bright

    Sharpen the arrows

    51:16 treasuries

    storehouses

    51:18 a work of errors

    the objects of mockery

    51:34 like a monster

    Like a serpent
     
  12. Ed Edwards

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    I disrespectfully disagree pppppppppppppt!! :laugh::praise::praying:
     
  13. El_Guero

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    While I do believe the NKJV to be a little more arcane than I would like to use as my only translation, I don't think it was difficult to read. Even when you chose difficult to read verses. "make the arrows bright" - sounds like sharpening (polishing) arrowheads.

    This is not my only translation that I consult. I also conuslt the Hebrew. And I regularly read the Spanish as well as 4 - 5 English translations when studying.

    Maybe instead of finding an easier English translation for non-native speakers - you could point the non native speakers to a good translation in Korean?
     
  14. Rippon

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    This whole thread has been aimed at native speakers of English .
     
  15. El_Guero

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    Since you find the NKJV to be difficult to understand, I would suggest sticking to the NAS or NIV.
     
  16. Rippon

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    While it is my own opinion , the NKJ is not as clear ( yet accurate ) as the TNIV . Go through some of my examples and see if that is the case or not . I note you preferred the "bright arrows" of the NKJ .

    I do not believe that many have taken the time to actually examine various verses and compared them in several translations as well as Bible study helps .
     
  17. EdSutton

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    :laugh:

    (Sorry, the new format only allows me to give one laughing smiley here instead of my usual three.)

    Ed
     
  18. Kiffen

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    I have to disagree. I don't find the NKJV hard to read. It is harder to read than the NIV or a paraphrase but it generally is also more accurate also. I have a NKJV Daily Bible that I read in my devotions and find no problems understanding the English but I also may use the NIV, ESV, Holman and Amplified along with to get a more accurate rendering on passages I may have questions about.

    I do see where non-native speakers of English may have difficulty with the NKJV so the NIV may be a better translation for them.
     
  19. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    I do not find any difficulties in using the NKJV. my children have no problem with the English.

    IMHO you examples are, for the most part, just another, not better, way to say the same thing.
     
  20. TCassidy

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    I took the examples and compared them with the Hebrew or Greek and found that the NKJV readings were much closer to the Hebrew or Greek than the alternatives you posted.


    To me "accuracy" means "fidelity to the original" and not "this is what I think it means or should say." :)
     
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