The Passion to Persuade

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Skandelon, Apr 20, 2011.

  1. Skandelon

    Skandelon
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    In Paul we see a hunger and passion to persuade people to believe the gospel.

    If you have a loved one you believe is about to be kidnapped and tortured, wouldn't you have this type of passion to try and stop it from happening? For that matter, wouldn't you do that for a stranger if you knew their life was in danger?

    Why don't many today exhibit this type of passion to persuade people to be saved? Does one's doctrine affect this passion? How can we inspire this type of passion in our own lives and the lives of other believers?
     
  2. Van

    Van
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    Do we think we hasten the day of the Lord's return when when someone comes to Christ in part through our efforts of cultivating, planting and watering? If so, then our lack of passion reflects poorly on our love of Christ.
     
  3. Van

    Van
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    Do we think because of our failure to cultivate, plant and water, some who might not have been lost, are in fact lost?
     
  4. Skandelon

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    Have we lost this passion to persuade?
     
  5. Luke2427

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    Love and concern for your fellow man is always to be secondary in motive.

    We can weep and plead out of concern for them.

    But the problem we have with Arminians is that the sinner's well-being seems to be the strongest motivating factor for them- a concern that a soul not perish in hell.

    That is really, ultimately blasphemy. It is a horrendous ordering of priorities and it represents the man-centeredness of the theology.

    The FIRST and FOREMOST motive must be love for God and His glory.

    Why should we give our lives to missions?
    Why should we risk the lives and health of our wives and our children on the mission field?

    FIRST and foremost because of a passion for our God and his glory.

    That is why Calvinists have been the most renowned missionaries in history.

    But in answer to your question- should we have a passion to persuade men that Jesus Christ is Lord?

    Absolutely.
     
  6. TomVols

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    Calvinists have this passion due to belief that God will save. Arminians have this passion due to belief man will respond. Some Hyper Calvinists dont have it because they disbelieve the gospel. Some hyper Arminians dont have it because it's not necessary since people will make up their own minds in their own time.

    There...I just ticked off everyone. My work here is done :smilewinkgrin:
     
  7. Skandelon

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    I actually agree with you on this point. When we witness and evangelize out of obligation or fear it becomes like another law for us to follow. We become like the Pharisees that travel over land and sea and make converts twice the son of hell. The motive for evangelism must be out of our passion for God and our passion for others. Those two can't be separated, by the way. The first command is to love God, the second it like it unto the same, to love others. What we do to the least of these we do unto Him. If we don't love others and have a passion to see them saved that is a symptom of a great sickness, which is that we don't really have love for Him and his glory.

    AMEN! And that passion for our God is most notably displayed in our passion for our fellow man. Those two motives really can't be divorced. (not that you are saying they are, but I'm just emphasizing that truth)

    What does seem to be the case with some of the Neo-Calvinistic movements is the lessoning of the zeal to persuade men, to beseech them to turn, to use every resource, to become all things to all men so as to win some. Much of these efforts to persuade are meet with the criticism that such "tactics" are "manipulative" (and sometimes they are, I'm not disputing that), but if one does believe God is going to effectually call his elect there is a tendency to shrink away from being persistent and persuasive in your efforts, don't you think? After all, if I've told them and they reject it then the rest is up to God to either regenerate him or not, right? Be objective. Surely that belief would affect the manner in which you might approach evangelism, right?
     
  8. Luke2427

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    It is a relief to agree for a change. You and I ought to discuss politics or Christian liberty every once in a while just to be reminded that we are not total enemies.

    I will offer this addendum to what you said above, however.

    They are TWO SEPARATE commands and not equal.

    The First is the GREATEST and should be treated as superior to the other. They are NOT one in the same.

    There is a host of things that I do for Him that have NOTHING to do with others. This is an important distinction.

    And when I set out to evangelize as I am commanded, my FIRST passion must be STRICTLY for Him and his glory. Then and only then can I be moved for my neighbor. My concern for my neighbor should be real and powerful; but it should be far behind my concern for my God's honor.

    I'm not going to deny any of this. There have been and are today SOME Calvinists who let the doctrine of effectual call dampen their evangelism.

    But on the other hand, we are Baptists and we know the name William Carey well. He was a devout Calvinist and though resisted by that ilk that abused the DoG into hyper-calvinism, William Carey is the father of modern MISSIONS.

    He was a Calvinist.
    Spurgeon was the father of the modern mega church and he was a Calvinist.

    And you know very well that I could go on and on. I could speak of Hudson Taylor and on and on and on...

    The DoG have circumnavigated the globe with the Gospel of Christ.

    The RIGHT motive for evangelism is that motive which Calvinism, imo, ALONE emphasizes- the glory of God.
     
  9. The Archangel

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    WAIT A MINUTE!

    Skandelon and Luke agreeing on something!? Now I really think I'll start believing in the Easter Bunny!

    Perhaps the world is coming to an end!

    The Archangel

    PS: The previous post was written with my angelic tongue firmly implanted in my angelic cheek. But it is nice to see agreement every once in a while.
     
  10. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Do you see the Lord coming down from the sky.....are you rising to meet Him? Praise the Lord!

    PS: Dont forget Whitefield..... who could persuade better than he!
     
    #10 Earth Wind and Fire, Apr 22, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 22, 2011
  11. Skandelon

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    :thumbsup: :laugh:

    Agreed. But what when I say they can't be separated, I mean that you can't have one without the other. One who has a passion for God WILL have a love for others. And one who has a genuine love for others could have only gotten that from their love of God.

    Agreed, but one is like it unto the same...meaning what I just said above.

    And of course we disagree on this point. Calvinists don't hold the market on "the glory of God" as the right motive for evangelism. And for every great Calvinistic evangelist or missionary many other non-Calvinists could be listed, but let's not play that game. Let's just stop with us agreeing on the motive for missions and leave it at that... :)

    BTW, I just responded to your long post in the Omniscient thread but they closed it while I was typing and it was lost. I'm too ticked off to retype it all now, so maybe I'll pick out a point or two later and start another thread...
     
  12. Luke2427

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    Yea, DHK hates me so he goes about shutting down any threads that I seem to have an upper hand on be they ever so slightly past the 100 post mark.

    Other meaningless threads go on for hundreds of posts.

    I genuinely look forward to your thoughts when you can press down the frustration of the thread shutting in your face.
     
  13. Skandelon

    Skandelon
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    Upper hand, Luke, really? Only in your deterministic world. ;)
     
  14. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Always lookin for that opportunity to throw a cheap shot right Scanny. :tongue3:
     
  15. Skandelon

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    He openly argues in belief of a deterministic world, so there is nothing "cheap" about that. The "cheap shot" is the insinuation that had an upper hand on me.
     
  16. DHK

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    Rarely do I close a thread without letting the posters know that I am the one closing it. Don't make unwarranted assumptions. I did not close that thread. Check the moderators. I am not the only moderator in this forum.
     

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