'The Perfect' simply and plainly is......

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by fortytworc, Apr 5, 2012.

  1. fortytworc

    fortytworc
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
    Messages:
    305
    Likes Received:
    0
    Can someone show me where the Bible says 'the perfect' in 1 Corinthians 13:10 is the Bible? The scripture used as support should say it simply and plainly, it should not merely sound like it or be an assumption, but a clear and direct statement.
    I borrowed this format for this post from another post with their OK I liked the simplicity of it.
     
  2. Moriah

    Moriah
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,540
    Likes Received:
    0
    I do not understand that question. Would you mind explaining it more to me?
     
  3. fortytworc

    fortytworc
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
    Messages:
    305
    Likes Received:
    0
    As a young Christian I was taught and believed that certain gift of the Spirit stopped "when that which is perfect (some read 'complete) comes.the perfect, or complete, they said, was the Bible. One time just for personal Bible study I began looking up other scriptures where the word translated 'perfect' 'complete' was used. I was surprised that not a single one had anything remotely resembling or pointing to the meaning of that word is the Bible. None of the texts hinted at the Bible. The word used in the context of each passage did not point to the Bible as the meaning. Now I would say that regardless of any connection of this word and those certain gifts of the Spirit there is no place when the 'perfect' 'complete' can be said to be speaking of the Bible.Thus my question :Can someone(simply, plainly, without assumption, or "it sounds like it does" show me where the Bible says 'the perfect' in 1 Corinthians 13:10 (or anywhere for that matter) is the Bible? Thank you for asking, Moriah
     
  4. Moriah

    Moriah
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,540
    Likes Received:
    0


    I should have known that the supposedly kind request from you to use my words were really to try to use them against me.

    Nevertheless, I will show you from scripture that the scripture when completeness or perfection comes is not about the Lord coming. Where in the Bible are you getting it where it simply and plainly says it is about Jesus coming? I will await your answer.

    Now, is it about the Bible being completed? Is the perfect or completion about the Bible?

    Tell me simply and plainly yes or no…can you add prophecies to the Bible? Tell me why you cannot.

    As for the statement in 1 Corinthians 13:10, “but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears”, or as in other translations, “but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears “nowadays tongue speakers claim that tongue speaking and prophecies will not cease until Jesus comes again. How do they ever get that when “completion” comes it means Jesus?
    That scripture does not say prophecies will stop when Jesus comes again. It is about prophecies and completion.
    The prophets in the Old Testament prophesied about Jesus, and prophets in the New Testament prophesied about our salvation. This is what Paul says, “…where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.” The “in part” part is about prophecies, so how does one logically claim prophecies turns into the literal coming of the Lord?

    Speaking in tongues were a gift given from the Holy Spirit during the laying of the foundation see Hebrews 2:1-4. They ceased when after the foundation was laid.

    When you only have prophesy in part, because the prophecy has not yet been fulfilled, or more prophecy is needed, it is imperfect, it is incomplete, it is imperfect and incomplete because the prophesy is in “part” or not yet fulfilled. However, when there is fulfillment of prophecy or more prophecy for what we need to know, then we have full understanding, so then, it is perfect and, that which is perfect is come.

    The Old Testament believers waited a long time for God to reveal Jesus to us. From the Bible, we see that God has revealed Jesus. The Bible has everything we need to know for salvation. It is perfect it is complete.

    So, you would like to know where the Bible simply and plainly says "the perfect," it is in James. The New Testament is “the perfect” law given to us, James 1:25. The perfect law is completely revealed to us in the New Testament. The apostles from the New Testament received all the truth we need to guide us to eternal life, and they wrote this down in the Scriptures: John 16:13; 2 Peter 1:3; Acts 20:20, 27; Matthew 28:20; I Corinthians 14:37; 2 Timothy 3:16, 17; Romans 16:25-27.
     
    #4 Moriah, Apr 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 5, 2012
  5. fortytworc

    fortytworc
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
    Messages:
    305
    Likes Received:
    0
    Before I get to where I can't respond would you do something? Concerning my post. While i take some medication. Can you answer my question and show me where the Bible says 'the perfect' in 1 Corinthians 13:10 is the Bible?
     
  6. fortytworc

    fortytworc
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
    Messages:
    305
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm sorry moriah i just now saw the James 1:25 verse. Thank you. I will be back.
     
  7. fortytworc

    fortytworc
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
    Messages:
    305
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sorry so late. Anything not answered let me know

     
  8. fortytworc

    fortytworc
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
    Messages:
    305
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  9. mandym

    mandym
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is a good question and cannot be proven.
     
  10. fortytworc

    fortytworc
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
    Messages:
    305
    Likes Received:
    0
    That personal study I mentioned led me to see a couple of things. First I noticed that of the only 17 times this word is used only one or two were Not about God's people. All the other uses had to do with maturity, growth, directly involving people. Also, the other one or two times the word is used seemed to have nothing connected with Scripture unless you wanted to really stretch them with an already made up conclusion. One other thing was the usage of this word and the maturing people of God idea remained consistent whether connected with spiritual gifts or not.
    Thanks for your input.
     
  11. fortytworc

    fortytworc
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
    Messages:
    305
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,023
    Likes Received:
    47
    believe the reference there is to the Second Coming of Christ, as there will be no more need to have the Gifts in operation once jesus returns and brings the fulness of the Kingdom to earth!
     
  13. Moriah

    Moriah
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,540
    Likes Received:
    0
    That is the belief of many who believe they are speaking in tongues and go to a church where they believe they can prophesize.

    No, it is not about His body becoming mature. If it were about that, then that would be to claim that the Bible is not yet finished and that we do not yet know everything for salvation.

    No, you cannot add to the Bible, it is finished, complete, and perfect. So, why do you not accept the fact that prophecies and tongues has ceased? Prophecies and tongues were for laying the foundation. The foundation has been laid. You said you do not have a prophetic gift, but do you believe in someone who claims to have a prophetic gift? Are you doing something you believe in speaking in tongues?

    It is about the Bible. It is about everything we know for salvation being written down.
    I said those things. How do you not agree with the fact that the whole Old Testament is about pointing us to Christ? How do you not agree that the whole New Testament is about our salvation? You are wrong to disagree.
    "The perfect," is in James. The New Testament is “the perfect” law given to us, James 1:25. The perfect law is completely revealed to us in the New Testament. The apostles received all the truth we need to guide us to eternal life, and they wrote this down in the Scriptures: John 16:13; 2 Peter 1:3; Acts 20:20, 27; Matthew 28:20; I Corinthians 14:37; 2 Timothy 3:16, 17; Romans 16:25-27.
     
  14. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    1 Corinthians 13:10 (Amplified Bible)

    1 Corinthians 13:10
    Amplified Bible (AMP)
    10But when the complete and perfect (total) comes, the incomplete and imperfect will vanish away (become antiquated, void, and superseded).

    1 Corinthians 13:10
    New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.


    NIV
    8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.


    SOUNDS like the 2nd coming of Jesus.
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,023
    Likes Received:
    47
    Think being baptists we would read bible back into it, but the best answer would be kesus at His returning!

    Usually interprete that way as Bible to say that the spiritual gifts ceased once canon established!
     

Share This Page

Loading...