THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Jude, Jun 26, 2002.

  1. Jude

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    POLL regarding recent California Supreme Court decision banning the phrase 'under God' in classroom recitation of Pledge of Allegiance.
     
  2. Maverick

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    The best thing is toget your kids out of the public school system and let the Liberals have the cesspool.
     
  3. dlocal

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    I agree. Of course that may be a problem if you cannot afford private school. Home schooling though is not an option for some.
     
  4. donnA

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    Not only is private school way too expensive unless your rich, but home school is also expensive. We had some friends who were going to home school and want of course christian material, and it was really expensive. So for most people neither of these is an option.
     
  5. AITB

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    The cesspool?

    You are calling my kids' school a cesspool?

    How is that supposed to edify me?

    AITB
     
  6. Bro. Curtis

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    I'll chime in and call public schools a cesspool.

    And I don't care who gets offended.

    I am not rich, by any stretch. But God has supplied me with a means to educate my daughter in a private, Christ centered, creation teaching, God fearing school. It ain't perfect, and not as good as home schooling, but public schools are a joke.
     
  7. AITB

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    I don't really care what you say about public schools but I'm disappointed that you don't realize how unBiblical it is not to care who gets offended.

    Or - so it seems to me, anyway.

    Does this verse mean nothing to you, Mr Curtis? :(

    AITB

    [ August 06, 2002, 07:39 AM: Message edited by: AITB ]
     
  8. AITB

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    By having my kids in public school, where they are around some other people who do NOT share their faith, might actually help them have an accurate view of such people.

    They might learn something useful about people in the cesspool.

    They might realize that unbelievers are neither demon-possessed nor totally immoral. That unbelievers also care about some things they do - like being kind to one another and respecting one another.

    It's interested what one finds when one dares to look in the cesspool - imo.

    And I'm not just talking about excrement.

    And if you don't like that comment, well, it was not my analogy.

    AITB
     
  9. AdoptedDaughter

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    Public schools:

    A missions field where children can share their faith in God with other children who would not hear it any other way.
     
  10. ElizabethB

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    I agree.
     
  11. Bro. Curtis

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    AITB, another comment you made got to me also.

    "How is that supposed to edify me?"

    I don't really see any evidence that you come here to be edified. Your posts are mostly scolding us Baptists for one thing or another. Just because we are Christians, does not mean we can't state our opinions about the state of the world.

    "By having my kids in public school, where they are around some other people who do NOT share their faith, might actually help them have an accurate view of such people."

    That is the same logic Lot used to go to Sodom.

    "They might realize that unbelievers are neither demon-possessed nor totally immoral. That unbelievers also care about some things they do - like being kind to one another and respecting one another."

    Making the world a better place, right ? Being nice and respectful to everyone while they are on the road straight to hell.

    I believe in spreading the word, and the priesthood of the believer, but I don't believe we have to fellowship, or even be friends with the unsaved.

    I ama much stronger Christian now that I don't hang around my old unsaved friends.

    And the state of puplic education in America is a mess. I'm sorry you don't see that.
     
  12. Baptist Believer

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    Brother, you do what you are accusing her of doing.

    Yup. Just don't get upset of people disagree with you.

    Biblical reference please. Genesis 13 tells me that Lot went toward Sodom because he and Abraham were constantly in each other's way because of their immense flocks, servants and possessions. If you have more information, please share it.

    Well they could be posting here instead, twisting someone's words and characterizing everyone who is not just like them as on the road to hell. (Actually, I like the expression "going to hell on a greased slide" better myself...)

    Tell it to Jesus. He was constantly in trouble for socializing with sinners. Too bad you weren't around to straighten Him out!

    If you are weak, you probably shouldn't continue to associate with friends who are likely to get into trouble. But positioning yourself in the midst of mainstream society as a witness to a lost world is something quite different.

    In general, public schools need a lot of work. But in most places it is still possible to get a good education if the students are motivated and the parents are involved. Much of the success of private schools come from the selection process (picking students with the highest potential) and parental involvement. I know a little bit about this since I worked for a nationally-recognized award-winning private school for 7 years.
     
  13. Bro. Curtis

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    I see your points, but don't agree with everyone of them. Like you, I have years of experience in schools, I worked in a secure facility for 9 years with adolescent offenders. I know how puplic schools work, as my brother is a teacher, who is trying to get a job in a private setting, but has settled for tutoring, but will not teach in a public school that tells him he has to teach evolution, and acceptance of deviant lifestyles. I commend him for that.

    As far as I can see, Jesus hung around mostly with his disciples, who believed he was the son of God. When he talked with non-believers, he told them the truth. I don't see him fellowshipping with a hostile crowd anywhere. I never see a reference to him smiling at error.

    And as far as Lot goes, 2 Peter 2:8 indicates he was a saved man, a believer. But Genesis 19 tells us he "sat in the gates" of the city, indicating he was probably a ruler, or a judje. Going back to 2 Peter, verse 8 in chapter 2, tells us Lot's righteosness did not change Sodom's behavior, but the other way around.

    Thanx for the challenge, BB, I know I am sounding hateful and mean, but it bothers me that people are going to hell. That is why I take such a hard-line stance. I don't talk to non-Christians like this.
     
  14. Baptist Believer

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    Wow... Your perspective is going to be from the worst end of the public system!

    Evolution was taught as theory when I was in school. I don't know if that has changed, but I was in a fairly liberal, highly Democratic, unionized area when going to public school. I realize that there are places where is situation is much different, so I can't comment on other places except to say that there appears to be a wide diversity of requirements for public school teachers from district to district, region to region. You can't make blanket pronouncements about all of them.

    The "sinners" usually received Jesus with open arms while the religious types were often the hostile ones. The gospels are full of examples, but you might want to look at Matthew 9:9-13 where Jesus dines with Matthew and his "sinful" friends.

    Certainly the evil in the world can assist us with yielding to temptation, but it does not necessarily cause it. Lot is responsible for his sin and he couldn't blame it on his location. The New Testament is full of believers who lived in the mainstream of an evil and hostile culture and thrived.

    I'm not a pollyanna who thinks the world is a great place and everybody is naturally good. (In fact, I interupted typing this response to call the police on my neighbors who are having a domestic dispute. It seems the guy is always verbally attacking his wife at high volume and the arguments often go outdoors... :rolleyes: ) But if we are to be salt, light and ambassadors for Christ, we need to penetrate the world with the gospel -- both lived and taught -- in the midst of unbelievers.

    Yes, you do come across that way. But I also sense a healthy zeal for what you think is right. Please be careful about generalizations and remember to season every pronouncement with grace and humility. It's a struggle for all of us.

    I bothers me too. That's one of the reasons why I currently work in a "secular" industry doing a "secular" job. I talk to more unbelievers and have a more effective personal witness than when I was a pastor and people would try to avoid me. I am still doing ministry, but I'm ministering to a congregation of coworkers and professional contacts. I share the gospel by the way I live, the love and concern I have for others, and the way I accept people where they are when I meet them. After a while, things naturally move toward opportunities to share the gospel in a personal, realistic way, not some canned "4 spiritual laws" sales technique.

    I understand. But please, try to understand another person's point of view before you blast them. Christians have the same Lord, the same destiny and the same hope and faith. Let's remember that we are family before blasting each other.

    Thanks for your thoughts!
     
  15. Bro. Curtis

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    Thank you for yours!!! [​IMG]
     
  16. AITB

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    Originally posted by Mr. Curtis:
    AITB, another comment you made got to me also.


    I hope you realize that how you react to what I say is entirely your choice and responsibility. You will be accountable to God for it, not me.

    "How is that supposed to edify me?"

    I don't really see any evidence that you come here to be edified. Your posts are mostly scolding us Baptists for one thing or another.


    That's not the point. (And you've obviously made up your mind about my posts so I'm not going to waste time discussing whether you're right about them, with you) You wrote on another thread "God demands obedience and rightly so".

    If God has told you to speak what is edifying, period, then He will not accept the excuse "but she didn't come here to be edified!"

    Just because we are Christians, does not mean we can't state our opinions about the state of the world.

    You're right! It also doesn't mean you can't steal, kill and commit adultery.

    You can do whatever you want, Mr Curtis.

    "By having my kids in public school, where they are around some other people who do NOT share their faith, might actually help them have an accurate view of such people."

    That is the same logic Lot used to go to Sodom.


    We don't know why Lot moved to Sodom. Unless you have more words in your Bible about Lot than I do in mine. What you said about Lot is speculation, nothing more.

    "They might realize that unbelievers are neither demon-possessed nor totally immoral. That unbelievers also care about some things they do - like being kind to one another and respecting one another."

    Making the world a better place, right ? Being nice and respectful to everyone while they are on the road straight to hell.


    If people want to go to hell then I can't stop them. But it's my responsibility how I treat them and I don't believe God wants me to be rude to them or misrepresent them. I hope you weren't saying we ought not to be nice to nonbelievers or we ought not to be respectful to them. They are human, made in the image of God and as such, are worthy of respect, imo.

    I believe in spreading the word, and the priesthood of the believer, but I don't believe we have to fellowship, or even be friends with the unsaved.

    As I said above, you can do whatever you like.

    You're right that you don't have to fellowship or be friends with the unsaved.

    How did you get saved? Were you brought up Christian? Was it through the friendship of any Christians?

    Do you know anyone who was saved because a Christian was friendly to them?

    When you invite nonbelievers to your church does anyone talk to them?

    I am a much stronger Christian now that I don't hang around my old unsaved friends.

    God's strength is perfected in our weakness. What do you mean by 'stronger'?

    And the state of puplic education in America is a mess. I'm sorry you don't see that.

    I don't claim that it's perfect. But on the other hand I find the idea of educating my kids in an environment where they might learn such things as to call public schools 'cesspools' horrific. Anything but that. I want them to learn to be more respectful than that. I'd like them to grow up opposing that kind of name-calling, not engaging in it.

    I am confident that the public school system will do a good job of teaching my children respect for others. It has so far.

    AITB [​IMG]
     
  17. Bro. Curtis

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    I went to public schools :cool:

    And some of us here view your posts as hateful & spiteful also.

    Your posts will be challenged here, just like mine are.

    [ August 07, 2002, 06:11 AM: Message edited by: Mr. Curtis ]
     
  18. AITB

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    Originally posted by Mr. Curtis:

    I went to public schools :cool:


    And...? What's your point? I don't suppose you went to the one my children go to.

    And some of us here view your posts as hateful & spiteful also.

    I know - you do!

    If you are implying that you are having conversations with other people here about my posts being hateful and spiteful, well, go ahead if that's what you want to do. As I said, you can do whatever you want.

    Your posts will be challenged here, just like mine are.

    I noticed [​IMG]

    AITB [​IMG]

    [ August 07, 2002, 06:20 AM: Message edited by: AITB ]
     
  19. Bro. Curtis

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    No, I don't talk to people about you. I don't P.M. people about you. That's not how I do things. I try to talk to the person I disagree with. That comment was made by observing your interactions with others here, on this issue, and on past issues.

    And a comment about public schools, that I didn't originate, just agreed with, does not constitute a personal attack. I have no idea why you took it as one.

    You post things here that I vehemently disagree with. (not everything, but some) Then I post a rebuttal. I have never called you a name, or questioned your intelligence, or your salvation, nothing like that. If I have, show me.

    I'm blunt. That is not the same as being rude. I will not lie to you, nor will I hold back something I want to say.

    And us being on line at about the same time every morning, means we will bump into one another.
     
  20. AITB

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    Originally posted by Mr. Curtis:

    No, I don't talk to people about you. I don't P.M. people about you. That's not how I do things. I try to talk to the person I disagree with. That comment was made by observing your interactions with others here, on this issue, and on past issues.


    Oh, ok. Thanks for clarifying. I didn't realize you were referring only to interactions I've had with others, here.

    I thought you meant you'd had private conversations with others about me. I try to avoid doing that as far as possible; I'm glad you don't do it either.

    And a comment about public schools, that I didn't originate, just agreed with, does not constitute a personal attack. I have no idea why you took it as one.

    I didn't take it as one. I responded and you responded to me [​IMG]

    You post things here that I vehemently disagree with.

    I noticed [​IMG]

    (not everything, but some)

    I appreciate that clarification, fwiw. I don't think I disagree with everyone you say, either [​IMG]

    Then I post a rebuttal.

    That's how it usually is on discussion boards ;)

    I have never called you a name, or questioned your intelligence, or your salvation, nothing like that. If I have, show me.

    I don't recall that you have. I just went through a Christian very persistently saying I am an atheist really, on the Secular Web. It was most bizarre.

    I'm blunt. That is not the same as being rude.

    I don't think I said you were rude. I do think it's disrespectful to call public schools 'cesspools'.

    I will not lie to you, nor will I hold back something I want to say.

    And I've never asked you to, nor do I expect you to.

    And us being on line at about the same time every morning, means we will bump into one another.

    I'll try to stop before we collide. I'd rather say 'hi' than bump into you! :D

    AITB [​IMG]
     

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