The Political Line for Christians

Discussion in 'Politics' started by saturneptune, Apr 28, 2012.

  1. saturneptune

    saturneptune
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    This is more reflective, than a debate. I have spent lots of time as of late wondering why each of us as Chrisitans draw the political line at different points. Let me explain what I mean. From my observation, it seems there is more arguement amongst conservatives when they decide they have had enough of the liberal Republican Party and move on to another choice, despite the fact that those who move know they will not win an election. It is a tragedy in a sense, because all of us are basically in political agreement. We believe in Christian standards of morality, limited government, self reliance, accountability, and leaders who want to serve instead of steal. Reading back over the threads, there is more back and forth amongst us than with those who support Obama. In fact, I have seen many posts that accuse a different opinion of helping Obama. It is a catch 22, if one believes that a vote for a third party helps Obama, do you vote for a candidate that is offensive to the soul to keep Obama out of office, or does one vote for a decent candidate and in theory help Obama.

    Some history may help. Those who think that a third party is damaging probably ignore the 2000 election, when Ralph Nader without a doubt stopped Al Gore from being President due to the electoral votes in Florida. I doubt anyone on this board was arguing about the merits of voting for third party then, as more votes for Nader could do nothing but help Bush, and for that I am grateful. However, one cannot switch positions as your side wins or loses. You cannot use one set of reasoning this year, and be glad a third party was there in 2000.

    Why do we set different points where we have had enough? I first noticed the slip in the Republican Party in 1988 with the election of George Bush. He lost in 1992 because of not following a conservative agenda. Again, there was third party influence that year, but it is debatable if Bush would have won without Perot. In 1996, we had a weak candidate and lost. Bush just barely won in 2000, and did not fare much better in 2004. Bush was not a bad President, and actually think he was better than the first Bush. Bush made some good appointments to the Supreme Court. However, he and his Congress ran up record deficits at the time.

    The 2008 election is when the Republicans went off the deep end. The only reason I voted for McCain was one, Obama, and two, I was so thankful McCain had beaten Romney. McCain as a candidate in himself was terrible. He had a record of flip flops, and at one time, had even been considered as a Democratic candidate for VP. Lousy as he was, I voted for him.

    That was my line. The difference of Romney and McCain was my line. This is the first Republican candidate we have ever had that is a known non Christian, and the first candidate to have actively supported pro abortion and pro gay rights causes and laws.

    This election is no pleasure for me. I have spent lots of time as I said trying to justify a vote for Romney. I have talked to peers at work and church. I live in a very conservative community, and there is no support for Romney as there is on this board. I do not understand the disconnect.

    I really wish we were on the same side, as the goal is common, to make this a better nation. No one wants Obama reelected, but the difference is why put in someone with the same outcome if not worse. I guess the question is, how bad would a Republican candidate have to get for you to consider a third party or not vote?
     
    #1 saturneptune, Apr 28, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2012
  2. billwald

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    Vote for a guy who thinks God wants him to wear long under ware in the summer?
     
  3. InTheLight

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    There are more factors than just the Republican candidate. As of right now I'm voting for Romney, which is pretty bad in itself. But I loathe his opponent, so I'll probably vote for Romney. However, I live in Minnesota, which will likely go Obama no matter what, so come election day I might vote for a third party candidate.

    I voted for a Democrat for governor of Minnesota in 1990 because the Republican was a RINO and was pro-abortion. Rudy Perpich-D was a good man and was pro-life. I voted for a third party candidate in 1998 for governor (and lived to regret it) because the Republican, Norm Coleman was a Democrat up until 2 years before the election.
     
  4. saturneptune

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    I see you are also a Romney supporter.
     
  5. Salty

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  6. billwald

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    from http://www.adherents.com/people/pe/Dwight_Eisenhower.html

    In later years, Eisenhower was baptized, confirmed, and became a communicant in the Presbyterian church in a single ceremony on February 1, 1953, just weeks after his first inauguration as president. In his retirement years, he was a member of the Gettysburg Presbyterian Church in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania
    -----------------------------------------------------


    Matthew, Mark, John, Peter, and Paul were reported to be Jews. It is how they ended up that counts.
     
  7. LadyEagle

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    Jesus is a Jew.

    Back on topic, sometimes for me it is voting for the lesser of 2 evils. That being the case, we must remember history, that Hitler was elected. There is no perfect candidate and if there was a perfect candidate for some of us, that perfect candidate would not win because there are so many uninformed voters, voters who have/want a different agenda for the future of our nation, or voters who voted simply on skin color like last time around, or voters wanting a "feel good" vote, or "one issue" voters. And then there is always the question of voter fraud.....The truth is, most voters are really uninformed except for bumper sticker slogans....

    All the candidates are going to say things that appeal to various voters/groups. Even when it is just a local race. They usually say and do things differently once they are in office. Except the last time around, the only truthful thing obama said was that he was going to implement a "fundamental transformation of America." Which is what he has done. I am impelled to vote against him and his agenda by casting a vote, not for the perfect candidate (because there isn't a perfect candidate), but for his greatest opponent and hopefully the one who has the greatest chance of defeating him.
     
    #7 LadyEagle, Apr 30, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2012
  8. saturneptune

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    Lady Eagle,
    Did you get my post about the Constitutional Party experience? It really took the wind out of my sails about the party. Maybe I am an idealist, that expects that the Declaration of Independence and Constitution to be upheld. Once I got into the inner workings of the party that weekend, it became quite clear they did not have a passion for their own cause. That is why they are a third party.

    I really thought it was a priviledge to be an voting delegate at a national convention. Some of the state delegations were really excited. Kentucky's delegation decided not to even show up except me.

    I reread your threads on Romney, and then reread mine. The thought crosses my mind that maybe people can change. I doubt it but it is possible. Considering what is running against him, maybe I am being too harsh on Mitt. He has raised five sons, created jobs, has stayed married, at least tries to make it appear he cares about the Constitution. That is looking at him through a different light than the abortion, gay rights, cult angle.

    One thing I will concede, there is only one way to look at Obama. I have tried to even come up with a positive senario for Obama, and cannot. So, score one for you, I have to admit there is a difference. It will take more thinking before I can vote for him, but at least you opened up my mind.

    I saw a show during the 2008 election, that gave a what if senario. The idea was, if John Kennedy with his policies, had run against John McCain with his policies, and they compared each, that Kennedy would have been the conservative or to the right of McCain. As was explained, Kennedy was for tax cuts and a strong national defense. At the time, it was thought Kennedy was to the left of his opponent, Nixon.

    Anyway, I owe you a thank you for at least getting me to rethinking the situation. I thought of you as soon as that incident happened at the convention.
     
  9. LadyEagle

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    Wow, SN, no I didn't see your post about the CP. I will look for it. Thank you for your kind words, also, they mean a lot! :flower:
     
  10. LadyEagle

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    Couldn't find your post about the CP convention, but sorry you were disappointed. The only reason I voted for McCain, wasn't even because of Sarah Palin, it was against Obama.

    Did you know, it was like an unspoken thing here in this city, the first election I have ever seen where people didn't have yard signs and bumper stickers all over the place about McCain/Palin. You could only see a yard sign once in a blue moon and never a McCain bumper sticker. But there were Obama signs everywhere. It was if people were afraid, intimidated, that if they supported the "white guy" they would have their house molotov'd or their car keyed, or bricks thrown through their windows or have their car rammed or be branded a racist. People were afraid. I hope people will have had enough this go around and will not be intimidated. We early vote in a mostly white area and it was like we were all guarding a secret that we were afraid to mention publicly, because we didn't want to be "branded" as racist. People didn't talk while waiting in line, it was really eerie. I have never seen those looks on voters' faces before or since that election in 2008. We need to take our country back.
     
  11. matt wade

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    Do you not understand the difference? In 2000, it helped the more conservative candidate win. This year it will help the less conservative candidate win. If you don't understand that, then I'm not sure what else to tell you.
     
  12. Acebopata

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    I'd consider running for office myself if I was old enough and was led to do so by the Lord.
     
  13. saturneptune

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    Lady Eagle,

    Here is basically how that weekend went:

    "I had a really bad experience as an elected delegate to the Constitution Party National Convention. None of the other delegates from Kentucky, including the state party chairman, showed up. I had no idea what to do. This was my first convention. The whole thing was very disorganized. I was really irked when I left, and have not responded to any of their emails at the state level. Virgil Goode was nominated by one vote 203-202. I like some of his ideas, but he is not a good speaker, and does not inspire a crowd. If a third party is to ever have a chance, the nominee will have to be insipring and connect with voters."
     
  14. saturneptune

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    First of all, that is the mechanics of an election. It has nothing to do with the subject. Yes, at times a third party will help your side, and sometimes the other. You are from a state famous for putting the electoral college in disarray.

    If one is going to be against third parties, then be against them, not just when it suits your agenda. If you are for the electoral college, then be for the electoral college. If the electoral college goes against you like it did Gore in 2000, it does not say much for your support of the electoral college if you are all the sudden for popular vote because you candidate did not win. It is a two edged sword.

    Besides, the issue at hand is none of that. It is voting conscience vs voting to defeat Obama.
     
  15. matt wade

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    Who hear has said they are against third parties? Not anyone that I've seen. What I've seen people say, including me, is that a vote for a third part in this upcoming general election is the same as a vote for Obama.

    You've displayed your inability to grasp the concepts here. I'm not going to try and explain it to you any further. Have a good day. :thumbs:
     
  16. righteousdude2

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    While I Have to Respect Your Choice in the Voting Booth....

    ...I will tell you what I tell others. To vote for a third party, knowing they will never register enough votes to warrant a blip on the radar screen of the Novemeber election, is to waste a vote.

    I understand that it is more of voting your principles or even a vote of discontent with the plate put before you, but it is no less a wasted vote. IMHO! However, voting ones conscience is every Americans right, and I say good for you, because too many just don't vote, and that is allowing the political process to go unchecked.
     
  17. saturneptune

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    You do not explain anything to me. My only inability is the inability not to engage historically challanged individuals who do not understand the difference between voting conscience and voting for a major party. By the way, hear is the ability to detect a sound, here is a place. They are third grade homonyms.
     
    #17 saturneptune, May 1, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2012
  18. targus

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    You are aware that you called someone an idiot simply for disagreeing with you?
     
  19. saturneptune

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    ............................................
     
    #19 saturneptune, May 1, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2012
  20. Salty

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    Wasting a vote on a third party?

    Thats the beauty of fusion voting. I can vote for my principals and my third party, yet still help someone on a majority party win the election!
     

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