The preserved Word of God for ? speaking people.

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Pastor_Bob, Jul 26, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2002
    Messages:
    3,461
    Likes Received:
    45
    I certainly cannot speak for KJVOs across the board, but since you asked how I would answer the question, I would seek the counsel of Missionaries or national pastors who serve in these countries and accept their choice of what they would consider to be the preserved Word of God.

    This morning, I spoke to a Missionary friend from Laredo, TX who has a ministry across the border into Mexico. He endorses the 1602 Reina Valera as being the preserved Word of God for Spanish speaking people. Of course, this version pre-dates the KJV by 9 years. Upon his recommendation, I, too, would endorse this translation as being the preserved Word of God for Spanish speaking people.

    Does that mean I believe everyone must learn Spanish to read the preserved Word of God? Absolutely not. That is as absurd as the claim that I believe everyone must learn English in order to read the preserved Word of God.
     
    #1 Pastor_Bob, Jul 26, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2006
  2. Forever settled in heaven

    Forever settled in heaven
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2000
    Messages:
    1,770
    Likes Received:
    0
    the unproved assumption is that the KJV's the preserved Word in the English.

    can't speak for the Spanish, but that's being contradicted in the Chinese-speaking community by KJBOs seeking to overturn the Chinese Union Version w a new TR-based "preserved Word."

    but why "Absolutely not" n "absurd"?
     
  3. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2002
    Messages:
    3,461
    Likes Received:
    45
    It is not a disproved assumption either.

    I have no knowledge of this yet. I will be speaking to a Chinese Missionary this evening and I will ask him about it.

    I feel like you are trying to ask me something here.
     
  4. Forever settled in heaven

    Forever settled in heaven
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2000
    Messages:
    1,770
    Likes Received:
    0
    yes it is, actually (fr a biblical basis).

    do let us know what u find out.

    i wonder what makes u think so. was it the little question mark at the end? :D
     
  5. TCassidy

    TCassidy
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    12,131
    Likes Received:
    1,301
    Bob, you are aware, are you not, that ForeverSettled's native language is Chinese (Mandarin)?
     
  6. Forever settled in heaven

    Forever settled in heaven
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2000
    Messages:
    1,770
    Likes Received:
    0
    not only that, Bob, but Tom seems to know me better than i know myself! :D
     
  7. TCassidy

    TCassidy
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    12,131
    Likes Received:
    1,301
    I know quite a lot about you. I did a little research. I know you attended BJ and NU of S, and presently live in my Dad's old home town (although he was born in Ottawa he moved to Toronto when he as 2). :)
     
  8. John of Japan

    John of Japan
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    12,208
    Likes Received:
    192
    Oh come now, "overturn" the UV? That's pretty strong language.
     
  9. Forever settled in heaven

    Forever settled in heaven
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2000
    Messages:
    1,770
    Likes Received:
    0
    um, doncha think they wld if they cld? ;)
     
  10. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2002
    Messages:
    3,461
    Likes Received:
    45
    I spoke with BIMI Missionary Kendale Lalman this evening. Kendale has served in China for 12 years, 7 in Changhsha and the last 5 in Beijing. He said that the Chinese Union Version was translated by a Presbyterian in 1909. This is the Bible that he, along with the overwhelming majority of Christians use.

    He did say that a TR based Bible was translated by a man he thought was named Morrison, but that it was hastily and poorly translated. He also agreed that there is a movement for another translation at this time.

    I fail to see the relevance in making the statement that I believe the KJV is the preserved Word of God for English speaking people and clearing referring only to English speaking people.
     
  11. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Pastor_Bob: //I would seek the counsel of Missionaries
    or national pastors
    who serve in these countries and accept their choice
    of what they would consider to be the preserved Word of God.//

    Amen, Brother Pastor_Bob -- Preach it!

    1. I asked (via internet) my national Pastor in the City/Nation
    of Singapore what was the preserved Word of God
    for Singaporians. He said: New International
    Version (NIV)

    2. I asked a missionary to Renassance Fair
    actors, Shakespearian players, and Jacobian Era speakers.
    Her answer is: The KJV1611 Edition* is the preserved Word
    of God. (*note: original Gothic format type only :) )

    3. I asked a national Pastor (Southern Baptist)
    and Missionary to 21st century (2001-2100) Oklahomans.
    He says the Written Word of God is preserved in
    the Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB) of 2003.


    Yes, friends, the miracle of Godly preservation of
    His Holy Written Word is found in each of the
    original language documents and in
    each of the faithful translations.
     
  12. John of Japan

    John of Japan
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    12,208
    Likes Received:
    192
    Weeeeeeellllllllllllllllllllll. (Insert deeply thinking Japanese smiley.)
     
  13. John of Japan

    John of Japan
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    12,208
    Likes Received:
    192
    As to which Japanese Bible is the preserved Word of God, this depends on your presuppositions, as does your decision on which Bible (or Bibles) in any language is the preserved Word of God.

    (1) If one believes that the KJV is inspired and inerrant, and that you should correct the Greek and Hebrew from it, then you will only be satisfied with a Bible in the language translated from the KJV. The only problem is that sometimes such versions are not nearly as good as the others. (Sometimes better, though, of course.) Here in Japan, the first complete Japanese Bible was the Motoyaku ("Original Translation"), which was translated from the KJV. Has it been preserved? No. It has been out of print since about 1920, because it had many errors and was replaced by a much better version (though alas, one from Nestle's in the NT). I looked in used book stores for four years before I found a Motoyaku NT.

    (2) If one believes that the TR can be the only basis for God's Word for a language, he will choose a TR-based translation. In Japanese there has only been one of those, a NT-only (no OT) translation by a scholar named Nagai in the 1920's. It was done in classical Japanese, though, so even if it were still in print it would not be the Bible I would choose for my church. Only a few of my people would be able to read it with understanding.

    (3) If one believes that (even preferring the TR) the nature of the translation and how faithful it is to the original languages is far more important than what text type the source language text was, then he will examine the available Bibles and make his choice based on translation method and accuracy. In Japan, this is the Shinkaiyaku, used by almost all Fundamental churches and most conservative evangelical ones. It is based on the English NASV translation method and does have some poor renderings, but it is the best available.

    The thing is, if you choose #3 as your presupposition, your church can turn out very similar in beliefs to a church in the homeland which uses only the KJV--with the exception of the doctrine of preservation, which is completely not an issue in the Japanese churches at present.

    Note that #3 is based on the belief that I have that God has given Man the task of preserving His Word on earth--which is not to say that He doesn't preserve His Word, of course.:type:
     
  14. Forever settled in heaven

    Forever settled in heaven
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2000
    Messages:
    1,770
    Likes Received:
    0
    fwiw, this statement at D.A. Waite's site might be helpful:

    http://www.deanburgonsociety.org/ForeignBibles/chinese_bible.htm
     
  15. John of Japan

    John of Japan
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    12,208
    Likes Received:
    192
    FYI, I read Chinese through a Japanese kanji lens with some knowledge of Chinese grammar--so I admit I don't catch it sometimes. Anyway, in the statement you quoted I didn't see a character meaning "topple" in there with the 和合本 as its direct object. So, am I missing something?
     
  16. mcdirector

    mcdirector
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    8,292
    Likes Received:
    10
    that one made me smile
     
  17. Su Wei

    Su Wei
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2003
    Messages:
    1,667
    Likes Received:
    0
    Bro Ed, as one of the few singaporeans contributing on this board, I have to say: me thinks not!!! Me thinks he (or you?) overstated things. I would agree if he said that a majority of Christians in Singapore use the NIV but to say that Singaporeans take the NIV as the PRESERVED word of God, i can't agree. I don't think most christians (as in churched folks) even know this whole issue about the preservation of God's word.
     
  18. Su Wei

    Su Wei
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2003
    Messages:
    1,667
    Likes Received:
    0
    thank you for that link! :thumbsup: I've got alot to learn but i support a chinese bible that is TR based. Anything else will come up short. :smilewinkgrin:
     
  19. Su Wei

    Su Wei
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2003
    Messages:
    1,667
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just to clarify, what did you mean by 'overturn'?
     
  20. Forever settled in heaven

    Forever settled in heaven
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2000
    Messages:
    1,770
    Likes Received:
    0
    u're welcome on the quote/link!

    by overturn i mean to overthrow what's the currently preserved Word of God by labelling it a PERversion or corruption or somesuch insinuation. evidence of this is not wanting in the publications of Mrs "Dr" God-And Riplinger, Peter Ruckman, D.A. Waite, David Cloud, Jack Chick, et al.

    there are many underhanded tactics currently employed to make non-TR or non-KJB versions look bad, n it seems that the CUV n other non-English Bibles won't be spared, if the KJBOs get their way.

    but u're so right that the NIV cannot be said to be the preserved Word for Singaporeans--esp if most Singaporeans (incl many Christians) aren't really Christ's disciples to begin with. my guess is that job stability, academic success, social acceptance, etc., are far gter considerations in S'porean minds than, say, a theological n personal understanding of the Book of Job. the NIV, as u've correctly pointed out, is probably the most prevalent among the churches in S'pore.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Loading...