Before I get into what I wanted to discuss, I want to say that I side with the Calvinist on all 5 points so there is no confusion. The topic I am wanting to address is the order by which salvation comes about. For a typical Calvinist approach we believe that men and woman are totally depraved meaning that they will not come to Christ in and of themselves therefore need the Holy Spirit to bring about a miracle to cause them to desire to come to Christ in the right state of heart. This miracle that is causes faith to happen in a soul is generally agreed to be called regeneration. From a non-Calvinist perspective you get people shaking their heads saying "no.. no.. no.. no one is saved before they are saved.." (I am not trying to limit anyone's views here or cause offense). As a Calvinist I have to hear their disagreement and take it seriously because there may be some validity in what they are saying. My definition of Regeneration (rebirth/born again) is this, that one is made completely new. In this definition one has had their sins washed away as part of their newness. So you can see why the non-Calvinist isn't happy. A Calvinist must change the definition of regeneration to- made the soul responsive, alive, or quickened. These are biblical terms and words seen, however in the grand scheme of things it seems that the bible does not separate these terms from the sins being forgiven. If one is regenerated prior to faith happening (and you can't logically take the time element out although it is typically seen by a Calvinist as instantaneous chain of events) you have one born again without justification. Where I am at at trying to piece this together: I agree with Calvinist and have not surrendered a pedal off of the tulip. Going back to Scripture, Jesus speaks often of people who have a different set of eyes and ears, "He who has ears to hear let him hear" or "for seeing they do not see and hearing they do not hear". Calvinist recognize the effectual call, which in a sense means that their is a call to salvation empowered by the Spirit to bring life (regeneration) to a dead soul so that faith and justification come quickly. In my view, its nearly identical, however I do not put the emphasis on regeneration or rebirth in making one understand, but rather point to the effectual call. The effectual call is the key to "Irresistable Grace" rather than regeneration. The Spirit performs an act on a dead soul starting the salvation process and the overarching process after one latches on to Jesus is regeneration. In this view, regeneration describes what happens to a "believer" as he is led by the Spirit at God's exact time and place to trust Christ (faith and repentance being 2 sides to the same coin) and upon his trust is a simultaneous rebirth and removal of sin. In summary I see salvation as a complete work of the Holy Spirit in a human soul, but regeneration as the result of the process because of how regeneration is defined. Thoughts?