The Reconciliation of the World

jerry

I do not know what you are talking about. What I am witnessing to, is that the world in 2 Cor 5:19, did not have any sins laid to it's charge. God did not impute it's trespasses unto it. The word imputing is the greek word logizomai which means:


to reckon, count, compute, calculate, count over

a) to take into account, to make an account of

1) metaph. to pass to one's account, to impute

2) a thing is reckoned as or to be something, i.e. as availing for or equivalent to something, as having the like force and weight

b) to number among, reckon with

c) to reckon or account

2) to reckon inward, count up or weigh the reasons, to deliberate

3) by reckoning up all the reasons, to gather or infer

a) to consider, take into account, weigh, meditate on

b) to suppose, deem, judge

c) to determine, purpose, decide

God did not lay them[their sins] to their account

God was not counting their sins against them !

God did not reckon their sins against them !

God did not charge this world with sin !

This is the world of God's Elect as Per Rom 8:33,34

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

God did not charge His Elect with sin 2 Cor 5:19

Now, it is obvious that the world of 2 Cor 5:19 is not the world Paul points out here 1 Cor 11:32

32But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Now the word condemn here is the same word Paul used in Rom 8:34 ! This cannot be the same world !

It is quite obvious to me that Paul recognizes two separate worlds, one which has not been charged with sin, and is not condemned 2 Cor 5:19 and Rom 8:33-34

And a world that is condemned 1 Cor 11:32 and charged with it's sins !

So you have misapplied the meaning of 2 Cor 5:19, it is called false teaching !

 

Now, the question is why God did not impute the sins of this world 2 Cor 5:19 unto them ? It is simple, because He imputed them to Christ ! He layed or charged that world of 2 Cor 5:19 its sins to Christ to die for them. Christ had to be condemned in the place of that world in 2 Cor 5:19. So Christ, for that world He was condemned for accomplished this Dan 9:24

24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

He finished the transgression, He made an end of sins !

God will never remember their sins any more Heb 8:12

12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Why ? Because God for them through the sacrifice of Christ made an end of their sins, He dealt with them once and for all at the Cross.

Now that is not the case with the world that shall be condemned 1 Cor 11:32, God says this about it Rev 18:5

For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

 

jerry

Thats correct ! Those who die in unbelief, and in their sins as per Jn 8:24

24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not[unbelief] that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

So unbelievers like them in Jn 8:24 never had their sins not imputed to them, so they could not have been part of the world of 2 Cor 5:19. Those who composed that world, did not have their sins imputed to them. Why ? Because they were imputed to Christ. How do you think Christ died for their sins as per 1 Cor 15:3 if their sins were not laid to his Charge ? Now if they were laid to His Charge, they were not laid to the charge of those he died for ! Pretty simple reasoning here !

 

jerry

I thought I posted a resonse to this question already, but it is gone. The answer to both questions is the Church !

 

The Apostles are part of the Church and they were given the Ministry of reconciliation for the gathering of the Church Eph 4:11-12

11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

The Evangelist was sent to unconverted members of Christ body, the Church ! The whole Ministry was for the Body of Christ, Unconverted as well as Converted.

Its the same as when Jesus told the disciples that He shed His blood for them, for the remission of sins 1 Cor 11:23-25

23For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

24And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

This was for the remission of sins Matt 26:28

28For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Now the Apostles are part of the same many which the Blood of the New Testament was shed for.

And they, the Apostles were sent by Christ to announce to others in the nations who were also of that many who Christ shed His blood for, and to announce their remission of sins Lk 24:

46And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

48And ye are witnesses of these things.

They were part of the Body of Christ sent to convert the Body of Christ

Col 1:24

Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:


The Apostles are still an US because not all of the Body were Apostles ! 1 Cor 12:29

Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

 

There is no "ministry of reconciliation mentioned in Eph.4:11,12.
The "ministry of reconciliation" is given to every Christian, as Paul wrote to the believers in the church at Corinth:

And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; (2 Corinthians 5:18)

It is impossible to be a member of a body of Christ and be unconverted. You are contradicting yourself. If you are unsaved, by definition you are outside of the body of Christ (whatever way you may define the term).

Jesus shed his blood for all.

This is descriptive of the Lord's Table, which believers are to observe in remembrance of the death of Christ. Your point is moot.

Who is on the American one dollar bill? Is it George Washington? No, it isn't! It is his image! George Washington is dead. But his image is on each and every one dollar bill, not he himself.
Jesus was giving a picture. The wine in the cup wasn't his blood, and it wasn't shed for the remission of sins. It was a picture of the blood that was shed for all the sins of the world.

Obviously, they are part of the world, for whom Christ died. (John 3:16)

The same commission that every believer has.

The body of Christ does not need to be converted or else it is not the body of Christ. You don't make sense.

The bolded part is that part which you need to think about a bit more.

You are taking Scripture out of context here, as these verses are speaking of the spiritual gifts which have now ceased. The ceased at the end of the first century when the Apostles had died. The sign gifts were only in existence during the apostolic age.

 

dhk

Yes it does, that is who Christ died for , the Church which is His Body Eph 5:25

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

He is the Saviour of the Body Eph 5:23

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the Saviour of the body.


Now you are the one not making sense, If the Body of Christ , the Church did not need to be converted, why did He died for it ?

Thats your excuse for not accepting the clear truth, but scripture is interpreted by scripture ! Thats why you have different context's, because in them are found complimentary support verses, that just study and comparing spiritual things with spiritual things 1 Cor 2:13

13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

There is no scriptural rule of not being able to go out of one context to another to establish the Truth.

Paul did it ! For instance when he wrote Rom 3:10-18

10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17And the way of peace have they not known:

18There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Now Paul was writing to the Church of Rome and He goes back to the OT to establish mans depravity and gets some of his points from the psalms, some from Isaiah and so forth !

You have no right whatsoever to say something is out of context when the context is scripture. The berans were more noble, why ? Because they searched the scriptures.. Acts 17:11

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

That word searched means :

to investigate, examine, enquire into, scrutinise, sift, question

The way you comment a person has no right to search the scriptures. But I am not going to listen to you, if you wanna use that excuse all the time, so be it..

 

jerry

Thats error, Its to those who are reconciled objectively already by the death of Christ. 2 Cor 5:18

18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

The first us is everyone Christ died for. Christ just did not reconcile the Apostles by His Death.

The same Truth is in Rom 5:10

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Everyone Christ died for has been objectively reconciled to God by Jesus Christ.

And the Gospel Ministry is sent to reconcile subjectively those already reconciled objectively. Thats why Paul says in vs 10 being reconciled, we shall be saved by His Life !

That corresponds with the Divine Call of 2 Cor 5:20

20Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

The call to be ye reconciled is issued only to those who have been reconciled by Christ' Death.

The Church beseeches the Church !

 

Very good post and reasoning. In John 15 the Lord told some lost men that if they had not been exposed to the Light then they would not have had sin. In Mark 3 Jesus said all sins but one would be forgiven to all men. In Romans 5:13 we are told that sins of ignorance are not imputed to men, but in Num. 15 we are told that willful rejection of and and hard-hearted rebellion against God's clear word will be judged and condemned without mercy. Paul was a blasphemer but he obtained mercy for one reason, he did it ignorantly (1 Tim. 1:13), whereas the Pharisees, whom Nicodemus said "Knew Jesus was of God" (John 3:2), were not ignorant of their unforgivable blasphemy in Mark 3:29.