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The sign of the son of man

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by lastday, Aug 24, 2010.

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  1. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    Mel!
    Mel!!
    Mel!!!

    Wow, that's a pretty cool technique you've discovered. Each line has one more exclamation mark than the one before. The excitement builds.

    Anyhow - you wrote that I would "spiritualize" God's plan, etc. Then you revealed what you really think that word means. You equate it with "ethereal". That is the very core of - well, one of the cores - of your misunderstanding.

    If you are more spiritual you will understand there is a difference between "spiritual" and "ethereal".

    Now if that insults you (Not my intention) then it proves that you really do have second definition of "spiritual" in your vocabulary. Take that definition of spiritual and use it for those verses I shared earlier.
     
    #21 asterisktom, Aug 26, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 26, 2010
  2. lastday

    lastday New Member

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    Lastday

    RAdam,
    You go too much into details regarding Dan.9:27, you have my head swimming!
    We need to discuss what Dan.9:26 had to do with Christ's Triumphal Entry!!
    Everything regarding the 70th Seven (Week) depends on that question!!!
    Mel
     
    #22 lastday, Aug 26, 2010
  3. RAdam

    RAdam New Member

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    Actually, Paul said it had been preached in all the world.

    Now, I do not maintain that all things in the Olivet Discourse deal with Jerusalem. Jesus is speaking about two distinct events: the destruction of Jerusalem and the Second Coming. When speaking of the destruction of Jerusalem, He is not doing it for the sake of the Jews as a whole or for the city or sanctuary. He is speaking to His disciples and warning them of the danger to come. His warning is, when you see this distinct sign, get out and never come back. This must be understood: Jesus gives a clear sign here of this event and tells His disciples, the ones who would have the testimony of this discourse, to flee the city and country and never come back. That is important because later in the chapter He clearly refuses to give them a clear and distinct sign of the other event, His second coming.
     
    #23 RAdam, Aug 26, 2010
  4. RAdam

    RAdam New Member

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    I didn't have nearly enough time or room to go into all the details I would have liked to. That prophecy is amazing for packing in details into a short space, it being only 4 verses long.

    I fail to see how verse 26 deals with His entry into Jerusalem.
     
    #24 RAdam, Aug 26, 2010
  5. lastday

    lastday New Member

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    Lastday

    Tom,
    You have shown little sensitivity to your brethren, in my view!
    Your former comment was that you read my posts for the "humor"!!
    You seem to dismiss your humor that puts a "ten-foot-post" between us!!!

    I was summarily barred from my first Thread for inflammatory language!
    You want me to take the chance to be barred again without warning!!
    I'm too slow to respond in my old age, as you reminded me, I'm 90!!!
    Mel
     
    #25 lastday, Aug 26, 2010
  6. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    Oh, please. What I wrote to you was mild in comparison to what you said just today and yesterday about me - and after your stated desire to make a clean break.

    You can't be both victim and victimizer. Decide which one you want to be. Better yet, do what 99 percent of the people here do - Don't consistently talk about someone when you are writing to someone else.
     
    #26 asterisktom, Aug 26, 2010
  7. lastday

    lastday New Member

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    Tom,
    Family members get together and talk to/about each other!
    You decreed you don't appreciate that kind of interchange!!
    It's best to leave in place the "ten-foot-pole" you planted!!!
    Mel
     
    #27 lastday, Aug 26, 2010
  8. lastday

    lastday New Member

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    Lastday

    RAdam,
    In Post #19 at 1:21 PM today, you wrote:
    At 2 PM I wrote:
    "We need to discuss what Dan.9:26 had to do with Christ's Triumphal Entry"!!
    You quickly replied:
    Jesus entered Jerusalem Triumphantly, Sunday, Nisan 9 in AD 33)!
    The Disciples believed the Kingdom would come "Immediately"!! Luke 19:11.
    Jesus destroys His enemies prior to setting up the Kingdom!!! Luke 19:27.

    Then He was hailed as "King of the Jews" five days before He was killed!
    He was "cut off" to fulfill Dan.9:26 before the Prophetic 69th had ended!!
    He was killed 16 days before the Prophetic Period of 173,880 days ended!!!

    That means the 70 Set of "Sevens" did not begin 3.5 years earlier!
    On the Day He was Crucified the House of Israel was left desolate!!
    From AD 70 to the End of Time, the Gentiles' "wrath" will continue!!!
    Luke 21:22-24.

    In your view, the 70th Set of "Seven" began when Jesus was baptized.
    His 3.5 year ministry is part of a Prophetic countdown of a the 69th "7".
    Jesus revealed He had fulfilled Dan.9:26 five days before they Killed Him. Palm Sunday was "THE DAY of His Visitation" that they failed to recognize.
    The last day of the Solar Calendar's countdown ended on Palm Sunday.

    The 69th Prophetic Seven (173,880 days) Ended on Sunday, Nisan 30.
    Christ was "killed" on Friday, Nisan 14 (April 3, AD 33)...five days after
    He was recognized as King of the Jews. Palm Sunday, Nisan 9, ended
    the Solar Calendar count of 476 years (68x7=476 years; 173,859 days).
    He was KILLED 5 days "after" those #173,859 days of Solar Time; but
    died 16 days before the End of the 69th Prophetic "7" ended on Nisan 30,
    AD 33. The Prophetic "7" was 21 days more than the 68 Sets of Solar "7's".

    Christ fulfilled Dan.9:26 five days before He was "cut off"; but 21 days
    before the Prophetic Countdown ended the 69th "7" on Nisan 30. Every
    set of Prophetic "Seven" Years began and Ended in the Month of Nisan!

    Day #173,859 of the Solar Countdown of 68x7 ended on Palm Sunday!!

    Day #173,880 of the Prophetic Countdown of 69x7 ended on Nisan 30!!!

    Nisan 30 was 21 days after the 68 sets of allowable Solar Days ended!
    This postpones the fulfillment of the 70th Set to be totally FUTURE to the time of His death!! There must be 2000 years (2 Days of Hosea 6:2)
    from His death until He comes to redeem Israel as His People a "2nd Time"!!!
    Mel
     
    #28 lastday, Aug 26, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 26, 2010
  9. lastday

    lastday New Member

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    RAdam,
    In addition to Post #28, the following gives the reason for my view:

    The "blindness" of the Remnant regarding the OC did not end in AD 33!
    The blindness began in the 69th set of "Seven" during AD 26 to AD 33!!
    The enlightenment for Israel will break upon them as of 2026 to 2033!!!

    God's judgment rests on Israel for 2000 years...from AD 33 to 2033!
    Their House must continue to be "desolate" from the Cross to the SC!!
    Their 69th Set of Seven ended, Prophetically, on Friday, Nisan 14, AD 33!!!

    In AD 2033 God will reveal to ISRAEL that their OC ended at the Cross!
    Their restoration is much more glorious than that of the Red Sea Crossing!!
    When they See Us Coming with THEIR Messiah, they will "beg for Conciliation!!!
    Mel
     
    #29 lastday, Aug 27, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2010
  10. RAdam

    RAdam New Member

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    Actually, all 9:26 says is that after the 69th week (the text says after sixty and two weeks, using this since the entire period of 70 is broken down into three periods, 7, 62, and 1) Messiah would be cut off. That text does not say when He would be cut off. The chronology for that is supplied by the next text, where it is in the midst of the week that he (Messiah) would cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease.

    How do you know what day and year Jesus entered Jerusalem? The answer is, you do not. Again, Luke 3 states that Jesus was baptized during the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar. This will not allow a crucifixion in 33 AD. There is nothing in the bible that tells us what day Jesus entered Jerusalem that last time. You are basing all your views on things outside the bible, which is very dicey at best.
     
    #30 RAdam, Aug 27, 2010
  11. RAdam

    RAdam New Member

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    There have been many men that came before you making specific predictions of when these things would occur. They were all proven wrong in the course of time. Why? Because they failed to heed the words of Jesus Christ. He stated in clear terms that no man would know these things. You set that aside and make predictions of these things, and what is worse is you use dates that are not certain as the basis for your system. If Jesus was crucified in any other year, your whole prediction falls to pieces.
     
    #31 RAdam, Aug 27, 2010
  12. lastday

    lastday New Member

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    Lastday

    RAdam,
    You wrote:
    I understand your concern about "knowing exactly when the end is near"!
    Jesus removed the "spiritual" role of His Kingdom from Israel as a nation!!
    It's because God "divorced" them...erased them as His Chosen People!!!

    Nevertheless, God is precise to the year, month, day in dealing with Israel!

    The difference is that the 2nd half of Daniel's 70th "7" will be fulfilled from
    the Spring of its final 3.5 years while the 2nd half of the 69th "7" occurred
    from the Fall of AD 29 to the Spring of AD 33. That means the 2000 years
    for the spread of the Gospel to all the world will have an extra six months
    beyond the 2000 years before the End can come!!

    The 69 sets of 7 had to meet the requirements of Solar and Prophetic time.
    But the 70th set must also meet the requirements of the Hebrew calendar!!!

    I can't prove the Year must be 2033 unless Christ died in AD 33 and Hosea's
    "2 days" means that God will redeem His former People after 2000 years. The
    Hebrew calendar from 2026 to 2033 has exactly 367x7 sets of weeks at the Feast of Tabs on a Saturday, Tishri 15, in 5787 to Saturday of 5794!

    Within that period are exactly 365 Solar sets of 7 weeks on our calendar.
    Also there are exactly 360 sets of 7 weeks for its 2520 Prophetic "DAYS".
    There are exactly 1260 days for the Two Prophets to demonstrate God's
    Kingdom Power and be killed 3-4 days prior to the day/days Christ appears!!

    It is only within the context of the final 1260 days that anyone can set the
    year, month and day for either Tishri 15 or 16 that will terminate the 2000 Years given over to the Gentiles for the completion of the Body of Christ.
    I am thrilled that the Two Prophets must appear from heaven on the last day
    of the Passover week of Unleavened Bread just 1263 or 1264 days prior to
    the UNKNOWN Day for Christ's appearance with ALL the Saints. The "Last
    Day" would be a Saturday for Believers; but for Israel the Appearance of
    their Messiah could be on Tishri 16, a Sunday, instead of Tishri 15!!!
    NOW:
    It's for Messianic Jews and the 144,000 Jews to be rescued from earth on the Last Day that Jesus gave the caution against setting an exact Day/Hour!
    The 144,000 Jews, kept safe in the desert until the Two Prophets are killed,
    know they must quickly journey to Mt. Zion to be rescued by the Lamb!! For
    the Remnant of Jews about to be rescued...they will "know their redemption
    and Kingdom are near when they see all these things happening"!!!
    Luke 21:25-36.

    ALL ISRAEL WILL BE SAVED when they see us coming with their Messiah!
    They will see "The Sign of the Son of Man" as Jesus gathers the Elect from earth to heaven and sends the angels to gather them out of the 4 winds!!
    They will "mourn and beg to escape and to stand before the Son of Man!!!
    Mel
     
    #32 lastday, Aug 27, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2010
  13. RAdam

    RAdam New Member

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    You don't get this: your dates for the ministry of Christ are not likely given the dating for the outset of Christ's ministry given in Luke 3.
     
    #33 RAdam, Aug 27, 2010
  14. lastday

    lastday New Member

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    RAdam,
    What evidence is there that God might have another year in mind?
    Remember the Last Day in the Americas must begin at a "blood-red" moon!
    Please go to www.thestarofbethlehemmovie.com and look at the evidence!!
    You shouldn't base an entire arguement on just a single verse of Scripture!!!
    Mel
     
    #34 lastday, Aug 27, 2010
  15. RAdam

    RAdam New Member

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    I'll respond by saying that you shouldn't base your argument on things not contained in scripture. Never in scripture are we told what day of the week Jesus entered Jerusalem that last passover trip. Yet you firmly declare it to be Sunday. How do you know that? Give me scripture. You can't. I'd rather base an argument off of one scripture than off of no scripture.
     
    #35 RAdam, Aug 27, 2010
  16. lastday

    lastday New Member

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    Lastday

    RAdam,

    Two of your posts suggest that we cannot know the year Christ died because of Luke 3:1. On the contrary, it supports AD 33 for His death.
    Most believers agree the evidence is clear that Palm Sunday was the day that He entered Jerusalem. By the way, I do NOT insist He will appear on Sunday; but the Hour of His appearance "could be a Saturday or a Sunday". In 2033, the Feast of Tabernacles begins on Tishri 15, a Saturday!

    "We should never use secular evidence to interpret scripture, but as
    useful information in establishing timelines, it's interesting that we know
    from these very reliable secular records that Tiberius Ceasar began to
    reign alone in the year 14 A.D. His fifteenth year was therefore 29 A.D.
    Going carefully through the gospel of John we also find that Jesus
    actually preached for about 3 1/2 years. Since He was crucified at the Passover, which was observed in the spring of the year, His baptism
    would have been in the fall of a previous year. Thus, 3 1/2 years
    following 29 AD brings us again to 33 AD.

    "Because of the moon phases which governed the timing of the Jewish feasts, (God's Time clock) the year 32 AD or 31 could not possibly have
    been the year He was crucified. The timing of the Passover Feast was related to the full moon. We know "only" the years 30 or 33 AD
    were possible years that would agree with the timing of the Passover. The
    Biblical evidence clearly points to the year 33 AD as the year that Christ
    was crucified.

    "On another level, when we rightly understand the 70 sevens of Dan.9,
    we see that it also shows us that 33 AD was the year of His crucifixion".

    Copyright 1994 Tony Warren
    For other studies free for the Receiving, Visit our web Site
    The Mountain Retreat! http://www.mountainretreatorg.net
    Mel
     
    #36 lastday, Aug 27, 2010
  17. RAdam

    RAdam New Member

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    I've seen people do what this fellow you quoted did. They made a mathematical error. Tiberius' reign started in 14 AD so they added 15 years to that, and there is the 15th year of his reign. The problem is, they added too many years.

    14 AD = 1st year
    15 AD = 2nd year
    16 AD = 3rd year
    17 AD = 4th year
    18 AD = 5th year
    Add 10 years and you get
    28 AD = 15th year

    He added too many years, not taking into account inclusive reckoning. For instance, 2009 was Obama's 1st year as president. His 4th year and last of his first tenure would not be found by adding 4 years to 2009, but rather by adding 3 years. His 4th year will be 2012, which is 2009 + 3. Tiberius' 15th year, if you start with 14 AD, will be 14 + 14 = 28 AD.
     
    #37 RAdam, Aug 30, 2010
  18. RAdam

    RAdam New Member

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    It's also funny that this fellow will say we shouldn't base our ideas on things outside the bible, but then he references an understanding of the 70 weeks of Daniel 9 as proof Jesus died in 33 AD. What he is saying is, if you add up the years you'll reach 33 AD. The problem is, he is starting with a date based on the heathen chronology of Ptolemy.
     
    #38 RAdam, Aug 30, 2010
  19. lastday

    lastday New Member

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    Lastday

    RAdam,
    You write:
    A child, at age 5 has lived 5 years; but its the 4th year from year One!
    The final 7 years, IMO, will be from 2026 to 2033; but don't count 2026!!
    Instead, the count begins with 2027 so that the 7th year would be 2033!!!
    So your AD 28 is the wrong year. Just anyone adds 14+15 to get AD 29!!!!

    In my first post, 8/24, I wrote the following:
    I was referring to your final Post on my first Thread which was closed out at 6:45 PM. In that post you got to the heart of the Last Day's "appointed time"
    for the SC where you replied to the following in Post #20 at 4 PM:
    Originally Posted by lastday
    You Replied:
    Now let us return to my opening question, 8/24, on the Exact Timing:
    At that time, my question did NOT concern if it would be Saturday/Sunday.
    But the 7th Trumpet expresses the only "exact timing" for the execution of God's Wrath and the fulfillment of the 3 R's...Resurrection, Rewards and
    Retribution. Here alone, in Revelation, we find the single word, KAIROS, used for God's Appointed Day on which Christ will come to "reward
    every believer and destroy those who are destroying the earth". Rev.11:18.

    The 7th Trumpet will not/cannot sound until the last (7th) Plague empties.

    At its first blast, Jesus Christ is crowned "King of kings and Lord of lords"!
    At its 2nd blast, "God will bring the dead in Christ with Jesus". I Th.4:13-14!!
    AT its 3rd blast, Jesus "sends the angels to gather us above to meet Him"!!!

    On the Lastday, Matt.24:31 must be the 3rd blast of the Last Trump.

    If the 69th Set of Seven was from AD 26 to AD 33, then the 70th Seven will be from 2026 to 2033!
    The 1260-day Endtime begins with the Two Witnesses arriving from heaven on the last day of the Passover Week of Unleavened Bread
    which will be a Wednesday!! Just 180 weeks later (1260 days), they will be killed on Wednesday, 3 days prior to the 7th Trumpet on a Saturday!!!

    There are exactly 367 Hebrew weeks between Tishri 15 of 2026 and 2033!
    And exactly 365 Gregorian weeks (including 2 leap days) in that period!!
    And exactly 360 Prophetic weeks (2520 days) in that same period!!!

    The Prophetic weeks are "embedded" within the 365 Gregorian weeks!
    Both are also embedded within the 367 Hebrew weeks with 49 extra days!!
    These 49 days end with the Jubilee Celebration beginning the 7th Millennium!!!
    Mel
     
    #39 lastday, Aug 30, 2010
  20. RAdam

    RAdam New Member

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    14 AD was not year 0 of his reign, but year 1. It's not reckoned the same way a person's age is. If a king begins reigning this year, this is year 1 of his reign. He doesn't have a year 0.

    14 AD = year 1 of his reign. That is the year he began reigning, that is year 1.
    15 AD = year 2. You would call this the second year of his reign, not the first.

    Luke 3:1 didn't say Tiberius was this old or had reigned this many years. It said that the year was the 15th year in his reign. Had that text said it was the first year of his reign, what year would it be? 14 AD. That was the year he began reigning, that was the first year of his reign. Thus, when the text says that year was the 15th year of his reign, it refers to 28 AD, not 29.

    Think of it like this. What was the first year of your life? Well, that was the point between birth and your first birthday when you turned 1. That wasn't year 0 of your life, that was year 1. If someone asked you when the 10th year of your life was, it wasn't when you were 10, it occured between your 9th and 10th birthday. One must take out one year for inclusive reckoning.

    All that said, there is then the question of when Luke begins his reckoning. Is it in 12 AD when he was made co-ruler alongside Augustus or sole ruler in 14 AD?
     
    #40 RAdam, Aug 30, 2010
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