The simple truth about God’s Plan for us to get to heaven

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by evangelist-7, Apr 30, 2013.

  1. evangelist-7

    evangelist-7
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2012
    Messages:
    1,191
    Likes Received:
    0

    The truth of the gospel (and its’ related doctrines) MUST be simple … because
    God has declared that His people are primarily simple, poor, humble, repentant folks!
    None of God’s saving truths are revealed through intellect, education, reasoning, etc.
    because this would go against what God has said about His people.

    First, Jesus declares that we must be born again (from above, spiritually) …
    … if we are to see the kingdom of God, i.e. be part of His kingdom here and in heaven.
    God’s simple declaratives, such as John 3:16, simply say that …
    whoever believes in Jesus should not perish but have everlasting life.

    Let us assume that this is enough to cause the true believer to be born again, and
    most Christians think this means the Holy Spirit has entered the person: John 14:16-17
    “He (Father God) will give you another (of the same kind) Helper, that He may abide with you
    forever — the Spirit of truth, whom the (unsaved) world cannot receive, because it neither
    sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.”


    And this “Helper” teaches the believer (through the Spirit): John 14:26, John 16:13-14
    “… the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things …”
    “… when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth;
    for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears (from the Throne)
    He will speak … He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.”


    “Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His … But if the Spirit of Him
    who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will
    also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.” (Romans 8:9-11)


    But, the KEY to everything is …
    “For as many as are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.” (Romans 8:14)

    Initially, God sanctified us (set us apart) … we were sealed (marked) as those
    who were going to be “worked on”, i.e. sanctified by the precious Holy Spirit.
    Yes, it’s a process, as in … “those who are being sanctified” (Hebrews 2:11 and 10:14)

    BUT … man has free will, and is fully able to reject this and refuse to co-operate!
    BUT … those who are sanctified successfully will inherit eternal life!

    Yes, those who are being led (i.e. those who are following) the precious Holy Spirit
    will be taught what it is that the Lord requires of them, such as:

    “Pursue holiness, without which no one will see the Lord” (Hebrews 12:14)
    “… as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,
    because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy” ” (1 Peter 1:15-16)
    “… present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God,
    which is your reasonable service” (Romans 12:1)
    “… to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight,
    if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not
    moved away from the hope of the gospel” (Colossians 1:22-23)
    “But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God,
    you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life” (Romans 6:22)
    “Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect” (Matthew 5:48)
    “… that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle
    or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish” (Ephesians 5:27)
    “But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete” (James 1:4)


    There are literally dozens of warning verses written to the churches … warnings
    that they could lose eternal life … if they do wrong things instead of right things!


    But, IMO, the main purpose for us having the Holy Spirit … is so He can lead us
    through the sanctification process unto obedience, holiness, perfection, and eternal life!

    .
     
    #1 evangelist-7, Apr 30, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2013
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Amen! You are making some very good points. Sounds similar to the Baptist Confession of 1689 as penned by C.H. Spurgeon.

    Romans 2:6-16 is a good example of the call to "persevere in doing good".

    Matt 10 Christ insists that those who are born again "take up your cross and follow Me".

    1Cor 6 Paul urges that the saints in the church "be not deceived" into think that living a life of sin - will ensure heaven for "such do NOT inherit the kingdom of heaven".

    Jesus said in Matt 7 "by their fruit you shall know them" and in that case the good tree, the good fruit is the case of those who "hear My Words and DO them".

    Romans 2:13-16 says "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are JUST before God but the DOERS of the Law WILL BE justiFIED ... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind"

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  3. salzer mtn

    salzer mtn
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,581
    Likes Received:
    26
    C.H. Spurgeon wasn't even alive in 1689.
     
  4. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,198
    Likes Received:
    374
    Wow - The seal (guarantee) of the Holy Spirit is pretty weak in your eyes, isn't it?
     
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    I should not have said "authored by" but rather "defended by".

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Spurgeon

    Charles Haddon (C.H.) Spurgeon (19 June 1834 – 31 January 1892) was a British Particular Baptist preacher. Spurgeon remains highly influential among Christians of different denominations, among whom he is known as the "Prince of Preachers". He was a strong figure in the Reformed Baptist tradition, defending the Church in agreement with the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith understanding, and opposing the liberal and pragmatic theological tendencies in the Church of his day.
     
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    "IF by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the flesh THEN are you the children of God" Romans 8.

    So long as we walk by the Spirit - all is well.

    "Sealed" does not mean "free will seared".

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  7. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,198
    Likes Received:
    374
    So our free will is more powerful than God's guarantee. A guarantee is a legal document - it is submissible in court and it MUST be followed through with. One party cannot say "Well, I don't feel like it anymore". A legal contract is a legal contract. God stands by His guarantee.
     
  8. awaken

    awaken
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2012
    Messages:
    3,346
    Likes Received:
    0
    As you know that I was raised in a Baptist church all my life and OSAS was grounded into me just as other doctrines that I have not studied out. I have come across several scriptures that puzzle me about this as you have posted several.

    Again I have not truly searched this out to really debate it..but I will say that I see the New Covenant being between God and His Son. I believe this is part of the mystery that satan could not figure out.

    I see Jesus representing both parties in this covenant. Jesus is called both the son of man and the Son of God in Scripture. The moment Jesus was crucified, the blood of the covenant was spilled. Only God or Jesus can break this blood covenant! This covenant is a faith covenant on our part! Faith in what Christ paid for on the cross! We can not do anything to enter into that covenant other than faith in HIM!

    This covenant is pictured in the Abraham covenant where only God made the covenant and Abraham rested in God's promise!
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    God is the one that sovereignly chose the "whosoever will" Gospel model.

    He could have chosen any model He wished - He just so happen to pick the one we see in scripture as "whosoever will".

    "Come unto Me all that are weary and heavy ladened" in Matt 11 was the invitation He gave.

    Because of that Paul places a lot of emphasis on commanding the saints to "persevere firm until the end".

    In Romans 11 Paul goes so far as to say "you should fear - for you stand only by your faith. If He did not spare them - neither will He spare you... He is able to graft them in again IF they do not continue in unbelief".

    In Romans 2:6-16 and Ezek 18:21-28 God explains in detail that He is under no such contract to take the wicked simply because they are among the chosen.

    In Matt 18 Christ explains the principle of "forgiveness revoked".

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #9 BobRyan, Apr 30, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2013
  10. SovereignMercy

    SovereignMercy
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2012
    Messages:
    385
    Likes Received:
    0
    Spurgeon wasn't even born yet, and wouldn't agree with the rest of what you wrote either!!! Nor does the confession.
     
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Originally Posted by BobRyan [​IMG]
    Amen! You are making some very good points. Sounds similar to the Baptist Confession of 1689 as affirmed by C.H. Spurgeon.

    Romans 2:6-16 is a good example of the call to "persevere in doing good".

    Matt 10 Christ insists that those who are born again "take up your cross and follow Me".

    1Cor 6 Paul urges that the saints in the church "be not deceived" into think that living a life of sin - will ensure heaven for "such do NOT inherit the kingdom of heaven".

    Jesus said in Matt 7 "by their fruit you shall know them" and in that case the good tree, the good fruit is the case of those who "hear My Words and DO them".

    Romans 2:13-16 says "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are JUST before God but the DOERS of the Law WILL BE justiFIED ... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind"

    Here is the Baptist Confession that Spurgeon affirmed -




    And here is Spurgeon -

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #11 BobRyan, Apr 30, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2013
  12. salzer mtn

    salzer mtn
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,581
    Likes Received:
    26
    Just anyone will not come to Christ. A person has to be weary and heavy laden before they will come to Christ. The invitation had a condition and that was, if you are weary and heavy laden, but who made the person weary and heavy laden? answer The Holy Spirit in conviction. Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. Unless the Lord reveals to a man that he is deep in sin these invitations to come will fall on deaf ears. Whosoever will may come, but whosoever will won't come. Why want they come ? because they love darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil, they hateth the light neither cometh to the light. St. John third chaper.
     
    #12 salzer mtn, Apr 30, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2013
  13. salzer mtn

    salzer mtn
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,581
    Likes Received:
    26
    In St. John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and i will raise him up at the last day. When Christ said no man CAN come he was saying man has not the power nor the ability to come. He didn't say no man may come but no man can come (inability). UNLESS. thank God for the unless. Unless the Father which sent me draw him. This is where the sovereignty of God comes in. Unless he draws by his Spirit, which is free to draw or not to draw. The Spirit bloweth where it listeth. When Moses set up the firy serpant on a pole the people that had been bitten looked and lived. Those that had not been bitten had no desire to look.
     
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Agreed. In John 16 the work of the Holy Spirit is to "convict the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment".

    In John 6 Christ said that no one comes to Him unless they are drawn to him. (Just now see that you already got to that one. Nice!)

    In John 12:32 "I will draw ALL unto Me".

    But as Matt 12 points out - some choose to harden their heart against the work of the Holy Spirit.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,097
    Likes Received:
    49
    God has determined just whom will be saved by the work of christ upon the Cross, and he has chosen to save back his people, and those he savews, are eternally secured by the cross taht fully justified them, and by the HS, who permanently sealed them!

    Do you think we work to either get saved, or kept saved by God?
     
  16. salzer mtn

    salzer mtn
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,581
    Likes Received:
    26
    In St. John 6:44 notice that when Christ drew a person by the Holy Spirit, he also said, i will raise him up at the last day. This is a fact, not maybe if they will let me save them, i will raise them up at the last day, but, I will draw them and they will be raised up as mine at the last day. To say that every person in the world is drawn by the Holy Spirit, you would also have to say that everyone will be saved and raised up at the resurrection in Christ, in light of St. John 6:44 or St. John 6:44 is a lie. In St. John 12:32 The word all is all without distinction, not all without exception.
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,097
    Likes Received:
    49
    you mean jesus did not exclude those who refused the sabbath keeping, keeping the law, becoming perfected etc from geting to heaven?
     
  18. salzer mtn

    salzer mtn
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,581
    Likes Received:
    26
    St. Matt 21:31 Verily i say unto you. that the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you (Chief Priest & Elders)
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,097
    Likes Received:
    49
    Jesus and the SDA/Charasmatics here now posting seem to disagree a lot, don't they?
     
  20. evangelist-7

    evangelist-7
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2012
    Messages:
    1,191
    Likes Received:
    0
    Paul, in Hebrews, goes into some detail explaining
    what happened to God's "chosen people" who were disobedient
    ... God left them scattered all over the desert floor!

    And he kept referencing this as an example for us!
    Oh, OSAS, isn't it wonderful ... no, glorious is a better word!

    Actually, here are some of my favorites ... they apply to EVERYONE who is a habitual sinner!

    “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived.
    Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves,
    nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.” (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)

    “Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry,
    sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
    envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you
    in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19-21)

    “But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints;
    neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.
    For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater,
    has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words,
    for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.” (Ephesians 5:3-6)

    “He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.
    But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars
    shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:7-8)

    “Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life,
    and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually
    immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.” (Revelation 22:14-15)

    .
     
    #20 evangelist-7, Apr 30, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2013

Share This Page

Loading...