Featured The sinners prayer

webdog

Well WD...if you are speaking outward and physical....they are not.

If you look at it biblically, the bible tells us who are jews....

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.



3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.:thumbsup:

 

Hello James

It is quite true since before the world was.I am not certain why you suggest it is not true.


9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,


Throughout the bible God maintains a separation between the seed of the woman, and the seed of the serpent.

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

the election of grace already was finished.

 

Isn't this thread about the sinners prayer and not about who the elect are?

 

Has it ever occurred to you that you would not have a Bible unless men recorded God's word and put it into a book for you to read?

 

It was until "someone" opened the door on these other discussion points;

and again:

and again:

Thats how it happened:BangHead::BangHead:

 

The OP complains that the sinner's prayer is an improper method to bring someone to Christ and results in many false professions, but if Calvinism is true, then the sinner's prayer is irrelevant.

If God has decided to regenerate a person, then the sinner's prayer will result in a true conversion. If the person is not elect, the sinner's prayer will result in a false profession of faith.

But this would be true with ANY method of preaching. It doesn't matter if you preach the law and tell the sinner a thousand times he has broken God's commandments, if God has not chosen to regenerate that person, this method will fail just like any other method. And if God has decided to regenerate this person, this method cannot fail. The method is meaningless, all that matters is whether God has chosen to regenerate a person at a given time or not.

So these books and arguments criticizing the sinner's prayer are BOGUS, the method of preaching has no effect on whether a person is saved or not if Calvinism is true.

 

Yes..sadly most of them are just walking in the flesh.

 

Not every open door needs to be walked through.

 

Wow, what a fantastic argument you and Evangelist present. You guys are two peas in a pod.

 

I assume because of your violent shouting that you are disturbed that God finally revealed to you that He alone is the one who saves. So I am going to speak very gently to you Winman.

Just shows what God is able to do doesn't it Winman, even with an old stubborn freewiller like you! But you are resilient and still think that He is controlled by the whims of sinful man. You should be ashamed of yourself, Winman. Here God has snatched you out of the jaws of Satan and from the Lake of Fire, revealed to you that it was He alone as you note above, and you still want to claim part of the credit.

Note #1: My humble apologies to Winman but I highlighted the part of his quote showing God's revelation to Winman regarding Salvation. And God really will regenerate and save that person whom He chose to be His own from the foundation of the world.

Note #2: Winman I am so thankful that you reminded me that God caused men to faithfully record His Word and that He has preserved that Word for folks like you and me! Where would we be without it? Shows that we serve a great and loving God does it not? Also shows how blessed we are that He chose us to Salvation in Jesus Christ and that He has saved us as He will all His "chosen ones", His Elect!

 

okay fair enough I'll give you this one:thumbsup:

 

Next time, SPEAK UP!!!!…

 

I am very shy don't you know!

 

I have said repeatedly that God alone has the power to regenerate a man. I don't know of any non Cal who believes differently.

That said, God himself has chosen to involve man in salvation. God doesn't appear to persons as he did with Paul on the road to Damascus and tell them the gospel himself. If you are saved, you are saved because some preacher, or a fellow Christian came and told you the gospel, or you read a tract or Bible that was printed by men. Men participated with God in bringing you the gospel. This is the method God has chosen.

Likewise, God has chosen that men have freewill. God doesn't force or compel any man to be saved. God freely offers salvation to any man who will take it, but it must be on God's terms. You must confess you are a sinner and believe that Jesus Christ is God's son who died for you and rose from the dead. You MUST submit to this, otherwise God will cast you into hell. So God is in charge, but you must make your own decision, that is the method God has chosen for salvation.

I have compared it to a job, you could not have a job unless your boss first chose to hire you. You cannot just walk in and start working. But you also chose the job, you did not have to work there if you didn't want to.

That said, your choice to work there does not make you the boss. Go in and tell your boss you are in charge because you chose to work there and see how that goes for you. You might find yourself out on the street without a job.

Calvinism is silly, it denies reality itself. It is clear men are involved in salvation, but you deny it anyway. Foolish.

 

Can you provide a scripture to support the notion that someone chooses to believe a promise?

And please don't try to quote "As for me and my house...." because the unbelieving generation had already passed. Joshua was already a believer when he said that, and was speaking to believers.

Wrong analogy. Having eternal life has nothing to do with working. Having eternal life has one condition - believe the gospel, which is a promise from God.

And it is not humanly possible to choose to believe something.

The better analogy would be if someone promises to come visit. You don't "make a decision" to believe them. You either believe or you don't. And whether or not you believe that there person will more than likely be based on your perception as to how trustworthy they are, NOT a decision.

And whether or not you"decide" to be home for that visit, is 100% unrelated to whether or not you believe the promise.

 

That is news to me Winman! But I am happy that you realize that truth and that you had nothing to do with your Salvation!

Please let me know when you are over your temper tantrum and I can speak to you in a normal voice!

 

It is not my fault if you do not pay attention, I said this in post #98;

I believe I said this in several other posts in this thread alone, and I have said it probably dozens of times since I have been at BB. You need to pay better attention to what others say.

 

I believe I can show you, but you might not see it.

Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

The word "commend" here means to entrust. Jesus is trusting his Father, willingly allowing himself to die on the cross, believing his Father to raise him from the dead. This was a conscious decision and a choice, Jesus did not have to die on the cross if he chose not to do so, he told Peter in the garden that he could have called on his Father, and his Father would have sent more than 12 legions of angels to deliver him. So Jesus had option, he did not have to die.

Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

Again, Jesus did not have to die on the cross, and it was not Jesus's will that he die on the cross, he prayed in the garden if this cup might pass from him. But Jesus made the conscious choice to trust his Father and die on the cross, as this was his Father's desire, that he might die for all men to deliver them from their sins.

So believing in the scriptures does not mean to simply agree with a fact or that that something is true, it means to trust or rely upon another.

An example of someone choosing not to believe is Thomas:

Jhn 20:25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Here we see Thomas say that he will not believe unless he sees Jesus with his own eyes and touches him with his hands. But he could have believed, he had the witness of all his close friends, and the words that Jesus had spoken to him many times before he died. Thomas had no excuse for unbelief.

And note that Jesus commands Thomas to believe. If we do not have the ability to believe at will, then such a command is nonsensical, and Jesus NEVER said anything that is nonsensical.

It was just an analogy to show that because you chose Jesus does not usurp God's sovereignty, just as when you chose to work for your employer, that does not mean you are the boss. Try telling your boss you are in charge because you chose to accept your job and see if he agrees with you.

Sure it is, this very debate board shows that people can weigh evidence and decide what they believe. During a trial you listen to evidence from both sides and in the end you must decide which evidence you believe is true.

Well, whether they are trustworthy or not is based on past experience. If this person has always shown up when they promised to come, it is very easy to believe they will keep their promise. But if they have lied and failed to come several times, then it is more difficult to believe them. Nevertheless, you decide to give the person another chance and wait for them to come. That is a conscious decision to trust them once more.

I disagree, if you decide to give the person one more chance to keep their promise, you will willingly and knowingly decide to stay home. That is a conscious choice to believe or trust that person.

Trusting is not a feeling, it is a choice to rely or depend upon another person or thing.

 

It is absolutely false that we have 'zero" role in our salvation. Whether you are hardest calvinist or the most determined arminian,.

 

It is entirely possible that I have used the term salvation when I should have used the term regeneration. I believe that regeneration of one "dead in sin" is the work of God alone. Man plays no role and I believe that is consistent with the teaching of Jesus Christ in John 3:3ff and Ephesians 2:1-8. I should note that some use the term "effectual call" rather than regeneration. Martyn Lloyd-Jones uses both.

That being said there are a number of events that occur in salvation, the initial event being regeneration. At some point after regeneration conversion will occur. Conversion is the result of conscious act of a regenerate person in which he responds to the Gospel, and turns to God in faith and repentance. [The Gospel call becomes the effectual call!] In conversion the regenerate man exercises the gift of faith bestowed upon regeneration. It is important to realize that conversion is a personal experience of a regenerate person with Holy God. Therefore, since no two people are alike we should not expect that they will have the same conversion experience. God saves people one at a time!