The Supernatural - Do You Believe

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by righteousdude2, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
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    QUESTION OF THE DAY:

    If believers believe in angels :saint: , why do they seem "fuzzy", or out-right deny the existence of demons? There are a plethora of scripture to support both, yet many believers fail to recognize the power and reality of demonic presence on earth. This is a dangerous scenario, because if we take the existence of demons lightly, doesn't that open oneself up for more subtle, stealth like attacks in our walk with Jesus, making us spiritual vulnerable to demonic attacks?

    Would love to know what you all think.....

    Pastor Paul :type:
     
  2. webdog

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    I believe in angels and demons. I believe many of these ghost and alien sightings are just that (demons).
     
  3. npetreley

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    Demons exist. I had an encounter with some many years ago. Nothing terribly exciting or exotic, but enough to make me aware that they really do exist and are active today.
     
  4. SBCPreacher

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    I believe that both exist. The Bible says they do - that's good enough for me. I'm not sure I've ever encountered an angel. But as for demons, there's this one lady at my church...
     
  5. TCGreek

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    1. I've heard others mention their experiences, in the case of Npet, but I've never had an encounter.

    2. But it can be quite misleading to equate the function of godly angels with that of demons (Heb 2:14)---we therefore cannot speak of angels and demons in the same way---Scripture doesn't.
     
  6. npetreley

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    I agree. In fact, I have my own pet theory as to where many demons came from, and it's not just the 1/3 of angels that fell. But that's only speculation, and it's beside the point. I think the point was that people are less inclined these days to believe in the supernatural (which covers both angels and demons, similar or not).

    It's kind of a side-effect of the age of rationalism, which is more like the age of irrationalism. People are putting their faith in science, but they define science with the a-priori assertion that the supernatural cannot enter into the equation. So they will always come up with a natural cause for everything, and they don't seem to care if their "natural cause" is totally absurd. They accept it over a supernatural alternative because they refuse to allow God a foot in the door of their thinking.

    Richard Lewontin openly admits this. In his eyes, I suppose he thinks he's being noble and rational. But read this quote and tell me you don't think it's equivalent to sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling lalalalalala!

     
  7. pinoybaptist

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    I come from a country where demonic activity is strong, more so because there are a lot of idolatry going on. We got a demonic idol standing right in front of a first class mall on a very busy highway.

    When Mt. Pinatubo erupted back in '91 or thereabouts, many fire-and-brimstone, saliva-spewing, Bible-thumping, foot-stomping fundamental KJVO, Baptist preachers attributed the burial in volacanic ash of entire towns to the fact that these towns were centers for idolatry and idol craft. Each town had at least three or four woodworking shops that carved images of this or that Catholic "saint".

    I can tell you story after story of demonic possession, a few of which I have witnessed myself.

    But, hey, knowledge and acknowledgement that they exist and are active is one thing, obsession and fear of them is another.

    The blood of Jesus Christ that bought us and covers us is more powerful than any demon, and I personally would rather fear God than demons, and be more preoccupied with knowing Him than knowing about them.

    Just my own two cents'.
     
  8. saturneptune

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    Well over 90% of UFO sightings, ghost reports, and the like are from nut cases, drunks, or those who have been smoking too much wacky tobacky.

    There are a few unexplained, and I agree with Webdog, attribute them to demons.

    How can ghosts exist? That is not the destiny of the human soul to linger on earth.

    I really cannot see any Biblical reason that there could not be life out in the universe, but then again, there may not be. If there is, God created it.
     
  9. Alcott

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    That may or may not be a dangerous scenario, but frankly I have not known cases in which supposed Christians took the existence of demons lightly, nor not at all, and found such cases dangerous-- though they may be for the individual involved regarding being faithful to the end, which is between that individual and God.

    But unquestioningly it has been a 'dangerous scenario' many times in history where religious (and/or political) authorities were sure they had demons all figured out, driving what people to do what, and the results were extreme torture, burning at the stake, and people being branded (literally or figuratively) for life.

    If you're a Christian, don't worry about demons. They don't have greater power than the Spirit that is in you, and to worry violates a teaching of Jesus.
     
  10. Hopeful

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    I wish I could remember what Christian speaker made the assertion that "it takes more faith to NOT believe in God than it does TO believe in Him", but the name eludes me at the moment.

    In the quote from Lewontin, I found this particularly interesting/absurd:

    "...on the contrary...we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated."

    And I find it particularly sad that the concept that "miracles may happen" is a motivating force behind that "apparatus", as it denies them so much joy to run from this concept!

    As to the OP, just this week, a tv character stated that "if you believe in one, you have to believe in the other"--referring to good/evil, angels/demons. I concur.
     
  11. David Lamb

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    By "believers", do you mean truly-converted people who know the Lord Jesus Christ as their only Saviour, the Way, the Truth and the Life? If so, I wonder what you base your assumption on that many of them (us) don't believe in demons? I know that plenty of "nominal Christians" (people who, if asked their religion, would answer "Christian", but who so not know the Saviour) would not believe in the existence of demons, but I cannot say I have heard of many true Christians contending that demons don't exist. (There are some who are less eager than others to ascribe almost all evil events to demonic activity, but that is a different matter).
     
  12. npetreley

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    I remember (it was ages ago) having a debate with a so-called Christian who adhered to Lewontin's views when it comes to science. I asked him what he would do if he woke up tomorrow to find a fully grown tree in his front yard, with no evidence whatsoever of it being planted there overnight. In other words, I asked him how he'd investigate something that was clearly a miracle. He said he would accept nothing but natural/material causes, and would restrict his investigation to material causes.

    I could hardly believe what I was reading. He was plainly saying that he'd rather believe a false explanation of how the tree got there than entertain the possibility of the truth, because the truth involved something other than material causes.

    Now THAT is blind faith!
     
  13. righteousdude2

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    Yes - You Have a Point

    You have a point my brother. Many believers are less than eager to recognize that demonic activity is behind most of the evil in todays world. However, I do know a great number of brothers and sisters who are born-again [truly converted and water baptized] that do not want to ascribe any evil to the devil and his work on earth. They simply say that it is the flesh in us that causes the evil we see [rape, murder, molestation, greed, theft, corruption, backstabbing, gossip, divorce, fornication, adultery, hate, anger, cussing]. Now I am not laying the full blame of these sins at the door step of the enemy, but, the truth is, Satan is the foundation and impetus of these sins, and once we get hooked, we pretty much continue on our own power. But, most evil needs a push start, and the devil is more than willing to give us that push.

    If Satan could come and tempt Jesus in the wilderness, or ask God for permission to tempt Job, there is nothing to say that he can't approach us and do similar things, bidding us us to turn back to the flesh.

    This is where the need to recognize that the devil is well and alive. This is why Paul told us to put on the FULL armor of God. We are not wrestling with flesh and blood, but against the demonic powers of the supernatural enemy, in a supernatural world.

    It is this argument that I use to explain that too many born-again, water baptized believers fail to recognize who the real enemy is, and these folks readily deny the existence of the devil. Yes, there is a large number of believers who are unbelievers when it comes to the supernatural world and the supernatural war we are in.

    Shalom,

    Pastor Paul
     
  14. Brother Bob

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    I believe with everything in me that an angel walked along side as they wheeled me to surgery on my heart and arteries several times. My wife could only go so far, and they made her stop and wait, but the angel went all the way with me, oh yes, I believe in angels.

    BBob,
     
  15. HankD

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    How about this Scripture?

    Matthew 27
    50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
    51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
    52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
    53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

    While these were not technically "ghosts" they were those who had previously died and now had come out their graves and were appearing to people.

    HankD​
     
  16. Brother Bob

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    They were not Ghost, they were the bodies of the saints, which slept and arose after Jesus arose and went into that Holy City and many were seen of many. They went to Heaven. IMO

    BBob,
     
  17. Psalm 95

    Psalm 95
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    I believe in angels and demon. My first summer as a new believer I spent a few days going trough a short systematic theology book and checking every reference in my Bible. I was shaken of the support of angels and spiritual world in the Bible. I after that i beleved in angels and demonic activity, and I sill do. But, it was a tough experience for a student of science and technology to change world view in that way. I was a christian before and believed the Bible, but had not studied all before.
     
  18. HankD

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    Oh, I agree Brother Bob.

    But isn't this an amazing passage of Scripture?
    I wonder, did they have eternal resurrected bodies or were they like Lazarus?

    So, you believe then that they were "raptured" into heaven?
    Why just "some" of the saints?

    Firstfruits of the resurrection?

    What was their purpose?
    I believe they had eternal resurrected bodies and were meant to fellowship with Jesus until He returns for everyone else.



    HankD
     
  19. Brother Bob

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    Yes, I believe Christ was the firstfruits of them that slept that arose. I believe that Jesus is the First resurrection and blessed is he that hath a part in the First resurrection (Jesus), for on such the second death hath no power.

    Oh, I believe they went to Heaven, with their heavenly bodies.

    BBob,
     
  20. righteousdude2

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    I Believe you Bob..

    Bob - I have heard similar stories like yours. I loved Billy Graham's book on Angels:saint: , especially the one about the missionary and his wife in the pathway of the Zulu up-rising. That made my neck hair stand on end. To know that God's angels to His bidding to protect, nurture, and minister to our every need; well that is totally exciting.

    My wife was going into surgery and heard angelic singing prior to, during, and following surgery. That. like your account, is the work of ministering angels.

    Blessings to you Bob, and prayers you never again have to have surgery.

    Pastor Paul :type:
     

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