The term "Apostle"

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Bro. Curtis, Jul 14, 2003.

  1. Bro. Curtis

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    What does it mean ? Are there apostles today ?
     
  2. Yelsew

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    It appears that modern Missionaries, Circuit ridin' preachers, etc. all fit into the definition of apostle.
     
  3. Mike McK

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    At the risk of sounding Clintonian, it depends on what your definition of "apostle" is.

    If you're going strictly by the Biblical example of an apostle, then, no, they don't exsist today.

    If you're going by the broader definition, as above, then yes, but the office of apostle commonly practiced today isn't the same as the Biblical role of apostle.
     
  4. Yelsew

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    At what point did Christ's chosen ones become Apostles?

    Clue: Matthew 28. In verse 16 the eleven are called disciples which means adherents to the teachings. But it is only when they obeyed Jesus commission to "Go into all the world..." that they became Apostles.
     
  5. A_Christian

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    The Apostles were MEN selected literally by the
    hand of Jesus Christ. To them was given the
    task of establishing Christ's CHURCH and pointing
    it in the correct direction.
     
  6. Yelsew

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    No argument A_Christian, but at what point did they actually become known as Apostles? It certainly was not at the point that Jesus selected them, for even in Matt 28:16, the end of Matthew's writings, they are referred to as disciples only, and not Apostles.

    They would only become known as Apostles when they began the Great commission of Going into the world, making disciples. By doing so, they fall naturally into the position of leaders, and as their work produces the same result in others, they then become the "authority" in an organization they "created" by their teachings. Each became know as an Apostle over those who adhered to the teachings received from them.
     
  7. Bro. Curtis

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    I see. So biblically, there could be no succession of apostle's, but by the world's terms, anyone could be one.
     
  8. trying2understand

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    No succession of apostles - not to be confused with no apostolic succession. [​IMG]
     
  9. Bro. Curtis

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    Explain.
     
  10. trying2understand

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    While there is no succession of apostles - the apostles were chosen by Christ and sent out as His emissaries (apostoloi) and were chosen witnesses to the Lord's Ressurection...

    there is apostolic succession - the apostles did appoint others to take their place, to continue in the divine mission as pastors of the Church.

    Others were appointed in their places, and so on through today.
     
  11. Bro. Curtis

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    So do Baptist ministers fall under this, also ? Are they successors ? If not, why not ?
     
  12. Carson Weber

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    So do Baptist ministers fall under this, also ? Are they successors ? If not, why not ?

    No, they are not. Otherwise, the term "successor" would lose all meaning. I could gather together Grant & Ron, they could vote for me to be a "successor" and *batabing*, I'm a successor to the Apostles!

    Apostolic succession goes hand in hand with the sacrament of Holy Orders. Jesus ordained the Apostles. The Apostles ordained bishops. The bishops ordained bishops. Those bishops ordained bishops, and so on, until you have the successors to the apostles today, which number among the Eastern Orthodox bishops as well as among the Catholic bishops. The difference lies in the fact that the Catholic bishops are united with the direct successor of St. Peter, whereas the Orthodox, while having valid Holy Orders, illicitly (not be confused with invalidly) can be termed "successors to the apostles".
     
  13. trying2understand

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    I suppose you would have to do a look-back and see. Trace the line back from a particular pastor and see who appointed him and who appointed him and so on.

    How far could you go back with your pastor?

    My understanding is that Baptist pastors are hired by the congregation by majority vote as opposed to being appointed to the office by another holding office.
     
  14. Bro. Curtis

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    Hmmmm.....

    So in order to buy the apostolic succession heresy, you have to believe that Peter was the first pope, eh ?

    Any verses to support this, or is it just tradition ?
     
  15. Bro. Curtis

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    Also, why couldn't the other apostles hand down their status ? Why stop with Peter ? Could Paul have done the same thing ? Why not ?
     
  16. DHK

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    1Cor.15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
    --There were the “twelve Apostles.”

    Before that there were eleven, and then they chose one:
    Acts 1:26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles. So the number remained at twelve, only there was Matthias instead of Judas.

    Later Paul the Apostle was added to the list bringing the number to 13.

    Acts 14:14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,
    --Here Barnabas is also considered an Apostle, bringing the number now to 14.

    7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.
    --It is possible that Andronicus and Junia may have been considered apostles (16)

    Gal.1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.
    --James, the Lord’s brother was certainly not among the original 12. so now that makes a possible 17.

    1 Th 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
    2:6 Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ.
    --Here both Silvanus and Timotheus are considered apostles. Now that makes 19 apostles.

    It is evident that there were more than just the Twelve Apostles. The word "apostle" referred to any believer who was "sent with a message" meaning the gospel message. Essentially it is the missionary of today. When "apostle" was translated into Latin it became "mittere," from which we get our English word missionary. An apostle, sent one, was one that was sent out with the message of salvation, something that every believer ought to be.
    DHK
     
  17. trying2understand

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    Not sure where you are getting "hand down their status" from. No one in this thread has said that.

    So tell me, Curtis, did the apostles appoint pastors for the local churches or did the newly converted vote for a pastor from among their group?
     
  18. trying2understand

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    So who is doing the sending?

    Is a new believer immediately ready or equipped for it?
     
  19. DHK

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    13:1 Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.
    2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
    3 And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.

    In all three of his missionary journeys Paul started from Antioch and returned to Antioch. One is sent and commissioned by their own local church.

    In the loosest sense of term "sent one." Even the newest of believers is qualified to share his own salvation with another. The command in Acts 1:8 is to be a witness. We can all do that.
    DHK
     
  20. Yelsew

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    You obviously missed definition #3 Apostleship is not an either/or situation.
     

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