"The Times and The Seasons"

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by beameup, Feb 21, 2012.

  1. beameup

    beameup
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    But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
    For yourselves know perfectly well that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
    But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
    Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
    Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
    For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
    Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

    1 Thes 5:1,2,4,5,6,9

    For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:
    and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up
    ["snatched away"]
    together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    1 Thes 4:16-17

    The Audience: Gentiles
    So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.
    For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you,
    and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

    1 Thes 1:7,9
     
  2. MB

    MB
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    I believe what you posted here and also that the comming of our Lord is very close. It's seems each day this world becomes more crazy with the passing of each day.
    Men hate each other for the smallest of things and we have become Sodom and Gamorah. Men marring men and women marring women. And all of them parading around actually proud of there sins. The meaning of good is bad and the meaning of bad is good. What a time in history to be alive and seeing thousands of years old prophecies come true.
    We have a president that seems to Hate Israel we have the Catholic's and the attempt to form a one world religion. I believe the anti Christ is alive and here now though he hasn't yet revealed him self. Our money is become more and more worthless. Soon people will toss it in the streets. The Lord could appear at any moment to take us home. I can't wait to see His sweet face. Come Lord.
    MB
     
  3. AresMan

    AresMan
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    But wait... the other apostles use similar terminology:

    1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly well that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

    compare with...

    2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

    Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.


    Of course, to hyper-dispensationalists like you, who believe that Paul and Peter preached entirely different gospels to different groups of people who have different eternal destinies, you have to say that "the day of the Lord [that] so cometh as a thief in the night" of 1 Thessalonians 5:2 is entirely distinct from the "the day of the Lord [that] will come as a thief in the night" of 2 Peter 3:10. These just have to be two entirely different "the day of the Lord"'s. The only reason that you would require this is that you are committed to Paul's statements of "the mystery" implying an entirely new "program" for an ontologically distinct body of Gentiles, rather than the simple, Biblical idea that "the mystery" is "that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs and of the same body" (of Jewish heirs) and "fellow citizens with the saints" (of Israel).

    1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
    1Th 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
    1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

    compare with...

    1Pe 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.


    Yeah, we know, both Paul and Peter told their recipients to "watch and be sober" but about two entirely different events and for entirely different reasons. Uh huh.

    1Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

    1Co 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
    1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

    compare with...

    Jude 14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
    Jude 15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.


    When Jesus comes back in "the day of the Lord," He will come with His saints (Jew and Gentile alike in the one body). Jesus and the saints will judge the world by executing judgment on the wicked.

    What about the rapture, you say?

    1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:
    and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    compare with...

    Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

    Mat 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

    Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

    Mar 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

    Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.


    The "mystery" of "the rapture" is that those saints who are alive and those who are dead at the end (on the day of the Lord) will meet the Lord in the air, when He comes in the clouds. He comes in the clouds with His saints. This is a gathering point with His saints where they will all then come down and judge the world. The wicked shall be slain, and the world shall end.

    Let's not complicate things that are simple and harmonious.

    Let the rattling begin...
     
  4. beameup

    beameup
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    Yes, we will be spared from the coming deception of The Wicked One, The Man of Sin, The Son of Perdition, the FALSE CHRIST - who will deceive the whole world.

    Paul's Second Epistle to the Thessalonians:
    Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away [apostasy] first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
    Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
    For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
    [the Holy Spirit indwelling believers]

    And then shall that Wicked One be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
    [Return of Christ with his Saints from Heaven]
    Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
    And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

    [salvation impossible for those left on Earth... except 144,000 (genetic) Israelites
    and those in very remote parts of the Earth who have somehow never encountered the False Christ]
    2 Thes 2:3,4,7,8,9,10

    Of course, there are some here that believe that Nero was the False Christ and that all this was fulfilled in 70AD.
     
    #4 beameup, Feb 21, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 21, 2012
  5. MB

    MB
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    Yes there is they call them selves preterist. I reject there view simply because they have no scriptural bases for it
    MB
     
  6. DaChaser1

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    The rapture occurs, than either the Lord Jesus is with us for period of the Great tribulation, or else he will be returning to the earth to set up His Milleniul reign!

    Depends upon if one holds to either a pre trib dispy, or Historical pre mil viewpoint!
     

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