The TNIV Has Been Misjudged

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Rippon, May 21, 2006.

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  1. Rippon

    Rippon
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    I think the English speaking community in America has misunderstood the TNIV translation . One reason is that the hype against it was swallowed hook-line-and-sinker . Also , many who have complained against it do not own a hard copy of it . It doesn't take male references out as much as some think . And the occasions in which man,men,he ,his are not used , the ESV and HCS are rather close to the same rendering most of the time .

    1 Peter 3:1,5-7

    Wives , in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands so that , if any of them do not believe the word , they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives .

    For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to adorn themselves . They submitted themselves to their own husbands , like Sarah , who obeyed Abraham and called him her master . You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear . Husbands , in the same way be considerate as you live with your lives , and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life , so that nothing will hinder your prayers .

    Acts 1:11 -- Men of Galilee...

    Avts 3:25 -- your fathers ...

    Acts 5:35 -- men of Israel ...

    Acts 6:11 -- persuaded some men ...

    Acts 22:1 -- brothers and fathers ...

    Acts 23:1 -- my brothers ...

    Acts 28:17 -- my brothers ...

    Galatians 4:5 -- ... because you are his sons , God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts ...

    1 Corinthians 13:11 -- When I became a man ...

    1 Timothy 2:8 -- I want the men everywhere to pray ...
     
  2. Rippon

    Rippon
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    The ESV is at the top and the TNIV is at the bottom for each passage.

    Matthew 10:22

    And you will be hated by all for my name's sake . But the one who endures to the end will be saved .

    Everyone will hate you because of me , but those who stand firm to the end will be saved .

    Matthew 11:6

    And blessed is the one who is not offended by me .

    Blessed is anyone who does not stumble on account of me .

    Matthew 12:36

    I tell you , on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak .

    But I tell you that people will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken .

    Luke 6:22

    Blessed are you when people hate you and when they exclude you and revile you and spurn your name as evil , on account of the Son of Man !

    Blessed are you when people hate you , when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil , because of the Son of Man .
     
  3. shannonL

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    Why take any male references out? I like word for word translations not Dyn. equiv.versions.
     
  4. DesiderioDomini

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    Actually, I remember reading a website done by the translators of the TNIV, comparing it to the NIV and supposedly showing the improvements.

    I remember reading for about an hour, and not able to find one passage which I felt the TNIV made it easier to understand than the NIV.

    I feel it was a highly unnecessary use of money and time, when the NIV was just fine. Without achieving a serious upgrade, I think new translations are unneeded.
     
  5. Rippon

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    Well , I obviously disagree ShannonaL and DD . Only 7% of the text of the N.T. was altered from the NIV . Much more was changed in the O.T . But I don't have stats for that .Language changes even in 20 years or so . Most of the changes in the New Testament had nothing to do with the gender issue .

    BTW, the TNIV is really not that much in the dynamic category . It still tilts toward toward the formal equivalence side , though not to the extent that the NASU does , for instance . It uses functional equivalence just a bit more than the ESV -- despite the claims that the ESV is so different from the TNIV .

    Here are some more examples where the TNIV is not much different than the ESV rendering . These verses show the commonality that the ESV and TNIV have . The HCS Bible also is close to the TNIV renderings of these and many other passages .

    Luke 7:23

    And blessed is the one who is not offended by me .

    Blessed is anyone who does not stumble on account of me .

    Luke 11:44

    Woe to you ! For you are like unmarked graves , and people walk over them without knowing it .

    Woe to you , because you are like unmarked graves , which people walk over without knowing it .

    John 1:7

    He came as a witness , to bear witness about the light , that all might believe through him .

    He came as a witness to testify concerning that light , so that through him all might believe .

    John 1:9

    The true light , which enlightens everyone , was coming into the world .

    The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world .

    John 2:24

    But Jesus on his part did not entrust himself to them , because he knew all people .

    But Jesus would not entrust himself to them , for he knew all people .

    John 12:32

    And I , when I am lifted up from the earth , will draw all people to myself .

    And I , when I am lifted up from the earth , will draw all people to myself .

    John 13:35

    Nor is he served by human hands , as though he needed anything , since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything .

    And he is not served by human hands , as if he needed anything . Rather , he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else .

    John 17:31

    ... and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead .

    ... he has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead .

    Romans

    3:4

    ... Let God be true though everyone were a liar ...

    ... Let God be true , and every human being a liar .

    3:28

    For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law .

    For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from observing the law .

    10:5

    ... the person who does the commands shall live by them

    ... the one who does these things will live by them .

    11:32

    For God has consigned all to disobedience , that he may have mercy on all .

    For God has bound everyone over to disobedience , that he may have mercy on them all .
     
  6. Lagardo

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    I remember hearing some pretty wild stories about the TNIV, and then I came across one. I have never really seen a big difference in it and the NIV, but then, I've never been a big NIV user, so maybe I just don't know enough to notice a difference.

    I can say tha the TNIV didn't live up to the negative hype...so that's a good thing.
     
  7. Rippon

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    You're on to something Lagardo . The Christian public largely doesn't have a mind of its own -- there is kind of a herd mentality at times .

    Now , on to some more verses with the ESV at the top and the TNIV below . Of course this demonstrates that the hype was just that .

    1 Corinthians

    2:14

    The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God ...

    The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God ...

    3:12

    Now if anyone builds on the foundation ...

    If anyone builds on this foundation ...

    9:22

    I have become all things to all people ...

    I have become all things to all people ...

    Philippians

    2:8

    And being found in human form , he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death , even death on a cross .

    And being found in appearance as a human being , he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death -- even death on a cross .

    Hebrews

    6:16

    For people swear by something greater than themselves ...

    People swear by someone greater than themselves ...

    Revelation

    9:6

    And in those days people will seek death and will not find it ...

    During those days people will seek death but will not find it ...

    16:21

    And great hailstones ... fell from heaven on people ...

    From the sky huge hailstones ... fell upon the people ...
     
  8. Rippon

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    Acts

    17:25

    Nor is he served by human hands , as though he needed anything , since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything .

    And he is not served by human hands , as if he needed anything . Rather , he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else .

    17:31

    ... and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead .

    ...He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead .
     
  9. rsr

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    In this, I think you are entirely correct. The assault on the TNIV is not entirely one of translational differences but of political differences. The Evangelical Community thought it had secured a promise from the NIV translators that a "gender-neutral" version would not be published and felt betrayed when the TNIV was published. The NIV folks, of course, disagree, and with some reason.

    Lost in the debate, to a large extent, is the actual merit of the TNIV.
     
  10. mcdirector

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    I've run by this post several times. Rippon, I am probably in the camp of which you spoke. I was writing for Lifeway when TNIV came out and the SBC in general did not speak kindly of it. Now, if you do a search, you can find all kinds of stories about it's origins and commentaries. Are they correct? Well I don't know because I don't have one to read. SO, after Joe's wedding (Oh, I hope I remember), I'll go get one and read it for myself. I do appreciate the reminder to not be so trusting. Generally, I'm a skeptic or cynic. This time I was not.

    Bitsy
     
  11. BruceB

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    You may be right, nothing is ever as black and white as some headline stories would make things appear. However, at 50 I find that my English hasn't evolved to the point that I need the current updates such as TNIV, so the NIV and NKJV still fill my needs for a modern, readable translation - and probably in the version of modern English I speak! Good point though, Bruce
     
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