The trajectory of The NIV and ESV...

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Rippon, Dec 31, 2011.

  1. Rippon

    Rippon
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    I think the NIV has become a bit ESVized,and the ESV has become a bit NIVized. Those will be new terms that you should get used to in this new year. And as I type here --the New Year has already arrived. You folks in the West are behind the times!

    Whatever are you talking about Rippon? This: With the changes that have taken place with both versions I think both translations are getting ever closer to one another. Oh no,that will certainly not set well with fans of either version.

    I know that the gradual changes that the ESV has made are marginal. But they nevertheless are inching along. In the case of the NIV,it has ceded some ground to the pro-ESV crowd.

    Loyalists to either version will not accept the facts above. By the way,I am in favor of the alterations that the ESV has made --may they make many more such improvements!

    Now I still maintain that the awkward English pervasive in the ESV does not commend itself as a 21st century Bible translation anymore than the NKJV does. However,the former has eased itself along the path toward the territory that the NIV,HCSB,NAB,ISV and NET Bible occupy. I guess you might say it's on the border.

    Pretty soon the pro-ESV folks will wonder what the issues were that made them hostile toward the NIV in the first place.

    Anyway some food for thought...
     
  2. Rippon

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    More Food For Thought

    What the text of the ESV gives its footnotes gives away. We already know that its many footnote alternatives in the New Testament saying "Or brothers and sisters",when the text just has "brothers." Well, there are many other times in which the alternatives in the footnotes are in agreement with the text of the NIV. These are just a few examples from the book of Psalms.

    23:4 ESV footnote :valley of deep darkness/NIV text:the darkest valley
    37:3 ESV FN:safe pasture/NIV text:safe pasture
    44:14 ESV FN"Heb. a shaking of the head"/NIV text:shake their heads
    56:5 ESV FN:they twist my words/NIV text:they twist my words
    81:5 ESV FN:against/NIV text/against
    83:13 ESV FN:like a tumbleweed/NIV text:like tumbleweed
    94:11 ESV FN:they are futile/NIV text:they are futile
    103:14 ESV FN:knows how we are formed/NIV text:knows how we are formed
    106:33 ESV FN:they rebelled against God's Spirit/they rebelled against the Spirit of God
    107:2 ESV FN:from the hand of the foe/NIV text:from the hand of the foe
    108:7 ESV FN:sanctuary/NIV text:sanctuary
    119:100 ESV FN:the elders/NIV text:the elders
    137:2 ESV FN:poplars/NIV text:poplars
    140:5 ESV FN:they have spread cords as a net/NIV text:they have spread out the cords of their net
     
  3. Yeshua1

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    well, would say that it just proves that some times its better to not change just for change sake, and glad we still have nasb/Nkjv staying the course for now!
     
  4. Rippon

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    What in the world do you mean?

    I thought you weren't in favor of the TR;the NKJV is based upon it. And the NASBU is not an all-round translation for natives of the English language,much less for ESL folks.
     
  5. Yeshua1

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    just was saying that it would have been better if the 1984 Niv was allowed to stay as is, or just update when actual need arose for it to be!

    I am for the CT Greek texts, but do prefer the theory of translation the NKJV team took, and the Nasb is fine to use for study and reading, for it reads pretty much to me, same way the Esv does, just more "literal!"
     
  6. Rippon

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    The actual need did,in fact arise. That's why there is now the 2011 NIV.

    Complete equivalence? LOL!

    I think in a number of cases it reads better than the ESV;but for study purposes only. Not for the way it reads in public. And it certainly isn't an ideal one for a jail ministry,retirement home or ESL folks,or even a new believer with little to no church background.
     
  7. Yeshua1

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    I agree with you there, as that would be where the Nlt/Niv/HCSB would be ideal!
     
  8. Rippon

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    Isaiah

    The word or in the footnotes to the ESV is very imporant. It signals that it is a legitimate alternative.

    I wil skip using the word "or',but note that it will be the first phrase,then the phrase rendered in the text of the NIV and finally that which is found in the ESV text.

    5:13 :Or:die of hunger,NIV text:same,ESV text:go hungry
    7:19 : watering hole/water holes/pastures
    10:12 Heb:I/same/he
    11:15 :wind/same/breath
    13:21 : owls/same/ostriches
    14:2 : servants/same/slaves
    28:7 : confused/befuddled/swallowed by
    30:15 : repentance/same/returning
    30:33 : Topeth/same/a burning place
    34:13 owls/same/ostriches
    40:2 : hardship/hard service/warfare
    43:23 : will display his beauty/displays his glory/will be glorfied
    49:3 : I will display my beauty/I will display my splendor/I will be glorfied
    49:4 (and 7) : teaching/instruction/law
    51:6 : will die like gnats/die like flies/will die in like manner
    52:4 : the Assyrian has oppressed them of late/...lately/Assyria has oppressed them for nothing
    53:12 ; with the great/among the great/with the many
    54:12 : ruby/rubies/agate
    58:14 : of the land/same/of the earth
    60:21 : that I might display my beauty/for the display of my splendor/that I might be glorfied
    61:3 ; that he may display his beauty/for the display of his splendor/that he might be glorfied
    62:4 : Heb.:Hephzibah/same/My delight is in her
    62:4 : Heb.: Beulah/same/your land shall be married
    63:11 : Then his people remembered the days of old,of Moses/Then his people recalled the days of old,the days of Moses/Then he remembered the days of old,of Moses
    63:15 : holy and glorious/same/holy and beautiful
    64:11 : holy and glorious/holy and beautiful
    65:1 : that did not call upon/that did not call on/that was not called by
     
  9. Yeshua1

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    Are you saying in this that we should view the esv as NOT being a formal equivalence/literal translation, but a mediating one, as same way niv/Hcsb are said to be?
     
  10. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Why do I see the (Dragnet Melody) Da Da Da Da "Reformed" gravitate to the ESV ....& dont you dare mention John Calvin! LOL :smilewinkgrin:
     
  11. Yeshua1

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    What is ironic here, is that some bible reviewers disliked the 1984 Niv for bible a "calvinistic" bible!

    Now we have gone to esv!

    For me, staying with Nasb!
     
  12. Rippon

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    Do you think it is due for a revision? It has been 18 years now since the update.
     
  13. Yeshua1

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    yes, but only if they are using the N-A 28th texts!

    Until that time, actually prefer the 1977 edition of the Nasb!
     

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