The Universal Wrath of God

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Jacinth, Nov 23, 2007.

  1. Jacinth

    Jacinth
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    Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness...

    As we can see, all ungodliness will be met by God's wrath.

    Rom 3:9 What then? are we better [than they]? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
    Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
    Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.


    Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned...

    Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

    1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.


    Clearly, every one of us harbors ungodliness within.


    Therefore, all of us will have the wrath of God poured down upon us.

    My question is this:

    What does this wrathful judgment entail for the unbelievers that it does not entail for you and I?
     
  2. ByGracethroughFaith

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    Christ bore it on my behalf.

    BGTF
     
  3. christ4life

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    ah yeah, He bored mine to
    Isaiah 53
     
  4. David Lamb

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    Some of the nearby verses to those you quoted supply the answer. You quoted Romans 3.9-11. Romans 3.20-26 says:

    20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
    You quoted Romans 5.12. Romans 5.15-18 says:

    15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

    You quoted Galatians 3.22, and that very verse tells of "the promise by faith in Christ" being given to those who believe. Then you quoted 1 John 1.8. The very next verse, 1 John 1.9 says:

    If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.​
    Even with your first quote Romans 1.18, we only need look back to what is found in the previous two verses, Romans 1.16-17:

    16 ¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith."
    Augustus Toplady wrote a hymn that puts the matter like this:
    From whence this fear and unbelief?
    Hast Thou, O Father, put to grief
    Thy spotless Son for me?
    And will the righteous Judge of men
    Condemn me for that debt of sin
    Which, Lord, was laid on Thee?


    If Thou hast my discharge procured,
    And freely in my place endured
    The whole of wrath Divine;
    Payment God cannot twice demand
    First at my bleeding Surety’s hand,
    And then again at mine.


    Complete atonement Thou hast made,
    And to the utmost farthing paid,
    What e’er Thy people owed;
    How then can wrath on me take place,
    If sheltered in Thy righteousness,
    And sprinkled with Thy blood?


    Turn, then, my soul, unto thy rest,
    The merits of thy great High Priest
    Speak peace and liberty.
    Trust in His efficacious blood,
    Nor fear thy banishment from God,
    Since Jesus died for thee.



     
    #4 David Lamb, Nov 24, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2007
  5. Zenas

    Zenas
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    David Lamb, I think you nailed it. I was starting to put up a post just like this when I read on down and you had already posted it.
     
  6. Jacinth

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    Hmmm. I must be missing something, because I don't see where my question was answered.
     
  7. Zenas

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    We thought we answered your question but maybe not.
    Yes, but we have been cleansed of this ungodliness by the blood of Christ.
    No we won't. See above.
    Unbelievers will spend eternity in hell. Believers will not experience a wrathful judgment. They will spend eternity with God.
     
  8. trustitl

    trustitl
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    Jacinth,

    It appears to me that you fear the wrath of God. If I am wrong forgive me. Either way, there may be somebody who reads this that does so I will continue.

    I John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. 16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. 17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

    As children of God we do not fear his wrath just like my children don't fear my wrath. They do "fear" my chastisement, which I try my best to do for their good.

    Heb. 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. 11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
     
  9. Jacinth

    Jacinth
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    ?

    If there is still ungodliness in you, then you haven't been totally cleaned of ungodliness, have you?
     
  10. Alex Quackenbush

    Alex Quackenbush
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    Or it could be you are satisfied with what you believe and blind to what others say.? I recall some people, from time to time, asking Jesus questions but not really seeking answers or listening to Him for enlightenment, rather they attempted to trap him, so that they could view His response with contempt, therefore in their delusional belief maintain the view their way was superior. They didn't really ask to be taught, only to handle the response of others, particularly Christ's, with contempt.
     
  11. Jacinth

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    Not at all. If you see where my question has been answered, I would be appreciative if you pointed it out. Sometimes I simply miss things. Thanks.
     
  12. Jacinth

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    Trustit, I enjoyed your post. Good thoughts. But I am still looking for an answer to my question.
     
  13. Alex Quackenbush

    Alex Quackenbush
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    Edited for repost
     
  14. Alex Quackenbush

    Alex Quackenbush
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    Here is the ultimate question from your OP:

    The post by David Lamb appears to have covered it, possibly not in every single detail and covering every exhaustive consideration, that would be called a book of course, but he addressed it:

     
  15. trustitl

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    Universal wrath of God

    Jacinth wrote:
    Therefore, all of us will have the wrath of God poured down upon us.

    My question is this:

    What does this wrathful judgment entail for the unbelievers that it does not entail for you and I?



    You have asked a question that many people have answered with truths simply stated in God's word. Until you are able to let go of the pre-supposition that all of us will have the wrath God poured down on us you will not be able to understand this wonderful truth: we deserve the wrath of God but do not have to face it because of Jesus. This is the heart of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

    Col 3:6 "For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: 7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them."

    Col 1:21 "And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight"
     
  16. Jacinth

    Jacinth
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    Quackenbush,

    I agree with everything David Lamb said in that post. I do not see, however, how what he said and the scriptures he posted address my question. Could you help me?
     
  17. Jacinth

    Jacinth
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    trustitl,

    I agree that we are delivered from wrath insofar as we have died with Christ, but I fail to see how this is at odds with the plain fact that Romans 1:18 declares that we are all yet ungodly to some extent.
     
  18. webdog

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    Do you hold to a post trib view?
     
  19. David Lamb

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    I will try to answer that myself, Jacinth. First, let me apologise for not making my earlier post clearer.


    What I was attempting to do was to show from the Scriptures that although we all deserve only God's wrath, and not His blessing, if we trust in the Lord Jesus Christ as our Saviour, He has taken the punishment that was rightfully ours, and given us His perfect righteousness. So I would not agree with what you said in your OP:
    Therefore, all of us will have the wrath of God poured down upon us.

    You see, if we still have to face the wrath of God, there was no point in Jesus coming down from the glory of heaven, and going through the physical and spiritual agonies of the cross.

    I don't know if that makes it any clearer. I hope so.
     
  20. Jacinth

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    Hi David Lamb,

    While I agree that we are righteous inasmuch as as we trust in Christ, but I don't think that our faith in Christ diverts God's justice away from us. Rather, it is through faith that we are delivered out of wrath. Faith is nonebut that whcih allows us to walk through the tryign fire of God.

    So you are denying that there is ungodliness in all of us? Or do you deny that all ungodliness is to be met by God's wrath?


    I see it much differently. It is precisely through Christ's death that we can emerge as new creatures from the trials of God's wrath. Do you see where I am coming from?
     

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