The unpardonable sin

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Servent, Aug 18, 2008.

  1. Servent

    Servent
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    Mat 12:31 Therefore I say to you, All kinds of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven to men, but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven to men.
    Mat 12:32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him. But whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this world or in the world to come.


    I need some help, is this before one is saved or after, to me it seems clear that it is never forgiven, someone I know say's it is. that this is only before one is saved.

     
  2. sandrocksam

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    I'm sure you will get some good comments on this, my view is when someone is under conviction by the Holy Spirit and rejects the Spirit's call this is the sin against the Holy Spirit to me nothing else makes any sense, His main purpose is to glorify Jesus and I believe salvation can only come through the Holy Spirit, you reject it you offend the Holy Spirit and of course there is no forgiveness because that is the only way. A clumsy presentation but I hope you get the idea.
     
  3. RustySword

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    Sandrocksam's view is the most widespread, and is close to Calvin's.

    John Wesley had a rather interesting view, and his writeup is somewhat humorous.

    If you look at my profile and link to my web page, you will see short quotes from both Calvin and Wesley. Go to the "index" to get to them. They are short - won't take but a minute or two to read.
     
  4. Aaron

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    I think John Wesley's quote is dead on. :thumbs:
     
  5. LeBuick

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    I know Wesley was here but I am missing the blasphemy part and why he says we are in no danger of it. Is he speaking to the Church who divides the Church against the Church.

    Lk 11:16 And others, tempting him, sought of him a sign from heaven.
    17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.
    18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.
    19 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.
    20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.
     
  6. Marcia

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    Servent, this was said to those who were saying that Jesus was casting out demons by the power of Satan, not God. This was an ultimate rejection of Jesus as Messiah.

    The unpardonable sin cannot be committed by believers.

    Some even think that this sin could only be committed by those who personally witnessed the miracles of Jesus and still rejected Him, claiming he was using Satan's power.

    We should not read more into this than what is there in the text -- it concerned those claiming that Jesus was casting out demons by the power of Satan. Jesus did not specify what the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is beyond this, so we should go only by the context of this passage.
     
    #6 Marcia, Aug 18, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 18, 2008
  7. AAA

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    I think this is rejecting the HOLY SPIRIT conviction to such a degree that the person will not ever be willing to have JESUS save them from thier sins... Some will do this while they are alive (REV. 13. No one who recieves the "MARK of the BEAST" will ever be saved) , but most people will complete this great sin against the Holy SPIRIT upon thier death...
     
  8. LeBuick

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    You seem to have the same view as verse 30...

    Mk 3:30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

    They attributed Jesus' work as being that of an unclean spirit or that of Satan.

    Obviously this was said out of ignorance and a desire to stick to their belief that Jesus was not the Son of God. They themselves had cast out evil spirits so when they see Jesus do it, His power must be from an evil source since they and only they represent God.

    I love to use this analogy, if a drowning man in the middle of the ocean refuses the services of the rescue boat, how then can he be saved? These religious leaders were rejecting the Saviour and the power behind is miracles, how then could they be saved? That leaves them one option, "eternal damnation".
     
  9. Marcia

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    That's a good analogy! :thumbs:
     
  10. Goldie

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    First of all, a Christian cannot commit the unpardonable sin because of what Romans 8:1 and Isaiah 1:18 says. Only an unbelievers can commit the unpardonable sin : Titus 3:10 - A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
     
  11. ReformedBaptist

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    Gill's comment on the verse is helpful:

     
  12. Servent

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    First thank you for your response at first I thought one was going to.
    1. this sin was not against Christ, it was against the holy spirit, V. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against The Son of Man it will be forgiven him, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or the age to come.
    2. The pharisees accused Jesus of casting out demons in the name of satan V. 24, saying he had an unclean spirit and not the spirit of God, there by blaspheming the Holy spirit and not Christ.
    3. Just my thought, if someone in this age christian or not said someone did not have the Holy Spirit in them (only God knows our heart) ie. Benny Hinn, and that person did they would quilty of this sin.
     
  13. North Carolina Tentmaker

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    Thanks for the Gill quote RB, I believe it is dead on here.

    The unpardonable sin is never a sin of ignorance but a sin of willful rejection.

    The sin here was not just that the religious leaders accused Jesus of casting out demons by the devil. If they had really believed that; then they would have been rejecting Christ through ignorance. Certainly some of the Jews present that day would fall into that category. But some knew better. Jesus is addressing here the religious leaders and some of them knew. They saw the miracles, they knew the law, they had studied it and watched for the Messiah their entire lives. The Holy Spirit had shown them, through the miracles, their knowledge of scripture, and the conviction of their hearts. They knew Jesus was the Son of God!

    Yet when they saw the Messiah for what he was, when they came face to face with God himself, when they saw what acknowledging him would cost them, they choose to keep their wealth, their influence, their political power, and their petty little lives. They choose the things of this world over Christ, not out of ignorance, but out of willful rebellion.

    That is the unpardonable sin.

    Let us fast forward to our day and time. Most people who reject Christ even today do so out of ignorance. Oh they know the Bible and the Holy Spirit convicts them, but they still don’t really know what they are doing. They don’t really realize the eternal ramifications at stake. They are choosing a lifestyle but don’t really know they are rejecting God himself. Most of them don’t anyway.

    But some still know better. Perhaps they are the religious and political leaders of our day. Perhaps they include you sitting on a pew. You know Jesus is the Son of God. Yet you know what following him will cost you in this world and whatever the things of this world are to you, your wealth, your influence, your family, whatever it is, you hold that more dear than eternal life and God himself. Willful rejection of God himself with the full knowledge of his revelation, yea that is unpardonable.
     
  14. LeBuick

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    That is one powerful observation and a really good job of dissecting the situation and time of the text. I think we often failt to understand scripture because we fail to consider the audience and situation. Great Job!!!
     
  15. Marcia

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    You seem to making 2 kinds of rejection here of Jesus Christ. I think either one is damning - either way, whether one know what is at stake or not, one is eternally separated from God.

    I don't think Jesus was just talking about rejecting him: he was talking to the Jewish leaders who saw him face to face and rejected his miracles and therefore his Messiahship. I do not think this can be committed today.
     
  16. Servent

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    This has every thing to do with a specif sin, it has to do with speaking against the Holy Spirit, Jesus said speaking against the son of man would be forgiven, this is not about rejection, it is about balspheme.
     
  17. North Carolina Tentmaker

    North Carolina Tentmaker
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    Yes your right Marcia I am dividing the two typed of rejection, that of ignorance and that of willfull rebellion. While both are damning, if you die in that condition, the difference is that with the rejection through ignorance you may, may have another chance later in your life. But with the rejection knowing the full truth, I believe at that point the grace of God will not be extended again. At least that is what I believe.

    Thanks LeBuick.
     
    #17 North Carolina Tentmaker, Aug 19, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 19, 2008
  18. Servent

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    After do futher study this weekend I must change my stand, I have to agree with N.C.T.
     

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