The Vatican Speaks on the Prison Abuse

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Bro. Curtis, May 13, 2004.

  1. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
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    This dude has some harsh words for us...

    Article

    ROME - The scandal of prisoner abuses by U.S. soldiers in Iraq (news - web sites) has dealt a bigger blow to the United States than the Sept. 11 attacks, the Vatican (news - web sites) foreign minister told an Italian newspaper.

    In an interview published Wednesday in the Rome daily La Repubblica, Archbishop Giovanni Lajolo described the abuses as "a tragic episode in the relationship with Islam" and said the scandal would fuel hatred for the West and for Christianity.

    "The torture? A more serious blow to the United States than Sept. 11. Except that the blow was not inflicted by terrorists but by Americans against themselves," Lajolo was quoted as saying in La Repubblica.
     
  2. BobRyan

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    #1. The beheading - (in a slow tortured way) video taped and published to the world in the name of "their god" will stand like the Alamo as a challenge to all civilized peoples of the world. May the Isaiah 37 principle of God hearing and God seeing when such public deeds are done in his name - apply here.

    #2. The "contrast" between the way Americans deal with abuses and the "joy and pride" that other groups take in much more terrible crimes against mankind - will be "instructive" to the world.

    In any war that lasts for more than a month or two - there are going to be flaws. The question is - how are they managed, how are they dealt with - not the brainless "how perfect were you in never having them".

    If America responds with a very focused punishment and condemnation of the guilty - then we will have done well. But If we cut the knees off of our ability to stop future attacks or to gain intelligence that unravels terrorist cells - we will pay for that mistake in American lives just as we did when decisions were made to gut our intelligence services in the previous administration.

    It is "instructive" that when the terrorist animals do some new despicable deed - they say "This is for coming in here and getting rid of Saddam" (that great monster of mankind), or they say "this is for supporting Israel" - they DON'T say "this is because your treatement of Iraqi's is WORSE than Saddam's" NOR do they say "your treatment is AS BAD as the 300,000 Iraqi's slaughtered by Saddam" NOR do they say "THIS is for abuses in the prisons last year".

    Yet "some" in America paint it AS IF the terrorists WERE doing that in efforts to "spin" truth in an election year.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  3. Dan Todd

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    Bob - some good thought! Well said!
     
  4. DHK

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    It is a shame that these things are done, especially by America. Let us not forget, however, that the British were implicated in the same atrocities in the same war. Canadians were accused of the same thing in the war in Bosnia. It is horrible, inexcusable, unjustifiable. But it is in a time of war. And such atrocities are committed on both sides.
    What seems to be forgotten are the horrible things that are done in times of peace.

    Persecution in Pakistan

    DHK
     
  5. BobRyan

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    Hearing or seeing the video of 26-year-old Nick Berg tortured and beheaded should be enough to give a climps into what that 23 year-old Pakistini Christian must have indured for 5 long days.

    What kind of animal does this and then claims the name of his god all during the butchering?

    What kind of "religion" then has devotees by the millions "cheering them on"?

    Where are the "apologies" of Islamic nations, Islamic clerics over those who scream the name of Allah as they butcher their victims and the millions (in their own countries and of their own flock) that cheer them on?

    There is a great divide forming on earth.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  6. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
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    Funny thing...I cannot find an official Vatican statement on Berg's execution. If anyone can find one, please post it.
     
  7. Walguy

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    After presiding over 40 years of cover-ups of the abuse of innocents, I don't think the Vatican is in much of a moral position to criticze anybody's treatment of anybody.
     
  8. Bro. Curtis

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  9. D28guy

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    Walguy beat me to it.

    Considering the RCC's history of torture and bloodshed for about a 1000 year part of her history, and the current scandal, "she" were would be wise to keep silent about stuff like this.

    Regarding the abuses in the prisons, all of it...every bit of it...is a mere *blip* compared to the overwhelming evil of satanically driven and demon filled muslim devils who hijack airplanes and use them as bombs to massacre thousands of innocent people who simply went to work on that monday morning, and the torturous murders of journalists and Mr. Berg in Iraq.

    Those original statements from the catholic reminds me of some of the liberal media who are jumping all over the prisoner scandal to turn "good into evil" and "evil into good", to borrow a phrase from the scriptures.

    God help us,

    Mike
     
  10. BobRyan

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    The tortured beheading complete with shouts and songs about how "God is great" - reminds us that much of the Islamic world has yet to emerge from the dark ages. They remain as "Islamic crusaders" having almost no respect for lives or human values.

    Is it any wonder that the Islamic world also makes no complaint about Saddam's slaughter of a quarter of a million Muslims?

    This quote found in the RC news item mentioned above is instructive "Pope John Paul has broken ground in dialogue with Muslims and even prayed in a mosque in Damascus. He won plaudits in the Muslim world for his strong opposition to the Iraq war."

    Notice that in defending an Islamic Hitler's regime - the Islamic world is far more "united" than in condemning it.

    This is "instructive" information for all civilized nations, religions and peoples.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  11. Jude

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    This Cardinal is a rabid anti-American. And since the American RCC is funding a great part of the Vatican budget, he should probably shut up. He frankly makes me sick.
     
  12. Gina B

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    I don't condone what happened in any way, shape, or form, but as far as what was just said have you read the old testament?
    Children had rocks thrown at them until they died, in the name of God.
    What about the defeat of Jericho? They took swords AFTER they defeated them and killed not only old men and women and kiddos, but animals too, in the name of God.
    Have you read Numbers 25? They killed a man and a woman in front of everyone with a spear for a sign, and killed everyone that followed...whatever false god that was, hung their heads out in the sun, in the name of God.
    This was the Christian God, yet you are suprised, shocked, and appalled when someone does these things in the name of a god you believe to be false?
    Trying to make people think here...
    Gina
     
  13. BobRyan

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    Yes and Samuel hacked a wicked king in pieces.

    However - he did not torture the king to death for 5 days as we find the Muslims doing in the quote above. In fact a 5 day torture event is never recorded in all of scripture as something God commanded His people to do.

    EVEN in the case of the killings of the OT - they were all quick and instant (as we might have someone shot). But in Islam they seem to enjoy the long torture - the screams of their victims as we see in the Nick Berg video only gives them joy.

    No wonder they can delight themselves in torturing Christians for 5 days until they die.

    This is not unlike the Nazi's torturing their victimes to death in WWII. (But this was only some percentage of 10's of millions involve in that case).

    The same beast-like animal behavior that mankind can sink to - when Satan is allowed to sit as "the god of this world" in their homes, mosques and among their leaders.

    There is I believe a huge rift forming in the world between the lengths to which unchecked evil can go (in the name of religion where it is free to arrange among a group of over a billion) and the "civilized world" of people still benefitted by the influences of the Spirit of God in their society, nation and churches.

    I believe God wants to save Nazis in WWII and Muslims today and Buddhists today -- and Christians today. But that does not mean that each of them are in an "equally degraded system".

    God destroyed the nations that lived in Caanan before Israel according to Lev 18 because they engaged in certain deeds that negated the fact that they were ignorant about certain sins. The crimes were of such a nature - that even a pagan nation must be destroyed by God for doing as they did. There exists a line beyond which mankind is not allowed to cross.

    The Flood shows this.

    Soddom and Gomorrah show this

    The nations of Caanan showed this.

    The fall of the Romans Empire shows this.

    The end of the World will show it again.

    IN Christ,

    Bob
     

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