The war of 1860 - 1864

Discussion in 'History Forum' started by Salty, Jan 11, 2009.

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How should the War of 1860 - 1864 be titled?

  1. The War of Northern Aggression

    7 vote(s)
    31.8%
  2. The War of Rebellion

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. The War between the States

    5 vote(s)
    22.7%
  4. The Civil War

    9 vote(s)
    40.9%
  5. Other

    1 vote(s)
    4.5%
  6. Not sure

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Salty

    Salty
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    How would you title the war on the North America Continent from 1860 - 1864
     
  2. ktn4eg

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    Sarge--

    You forgot to list "The War of Northern Imperialism"!!
     
  3. Jim1999

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    Just like all the history books, The American Civil War.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  4. ray Marshall

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    And you forgot to list: the war against Great Briton. or yet "Against the International Bankers.
     
  5. LeBuick

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    I like to call it, "The war that freed the slaves" even though it was an unintended side effect of the war. Seemed Divine if you ask me...
     
  6. Jim1999

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    That war didn't free the slaves. We were still doing that in 1960!

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  7. ray Marshall

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    Jim, I am glad to see that we have reached higher heights now. I think the black people have fought and died as well as we and they are our people.
     
  8. Jim1999

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    Ray, the Blacks were even segregated in Korea whilst we were fighting they were in separate units.

    It is different now. They fight and die side by each.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  9. ktn4eg

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    Just to remind some folks......It was NOT the Emancipation Proclamation [EP] that the quasi-sainted Republican President Abraham Lincoln signed that freed the slaves in the Union's border states.

    As a matter of fact the EP really didn't free any of the slaves that POTUS #16 had the actual authority and/or power to do at the time that it became official.

    What freed the slaves (including those in the Union's border states) was an Act of Congress when it decreed the 13th Amendment (ratified by the requisite number of States) several months after POTUS # l6 lie 'moldering in the grave.

    And, since folks in what was formerly called the Union, loved these freed slaves s-o-o-o-o much, they welcomed them to settle in the relatively un-scathed-by-war areas of the North, didn't they?

    Of course, in order to expedite the mass exodus of the newly-freed slaves into the North, they sent their agents in to the South to teach them the Biblical principles of how to establish un-corrupt governments in the South, didn't they?

    Yep, them Northerners really showed them ungodly Soitherners how to take care of things the Bible way, didn't they?

    ---These words over which were should ponder were brought to you as a Public Service from one who was born in the state where Gettysburg was fought and which sent US Representative Sumner to Congress
     
  10. Jim1999

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    Quite a few of those slaves found freedom in Canada by the undergound railroad. One Black village still exists in Ontario.wait two,,one near Collingwood as well.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  11. LeBuick

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    You seem to harbor some anger on this subject ktn4eg. I would like to ask the source of your anger? I can see you don't appreciate Abe Lincoln but the proclamation did lead to the freeing of the slaves. It stated as the states were defeated by the union, the slaves would be free.

    Then you seem to blame the freed slaves and/or northerners for problems in southern government. The only problem I see with southern government is they tend to feel the constitution is a static document and not one that can be amended at any time. In a democracy when the majority vote, it becomes constitutional...
     
  12. rsr

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    Nope. Lincoln 1) didn't have the authority to free slaves in states still in the union and 2) wanted to keep the support of the border states.

    This is often pressed into service to prove that the proclamation was inconsequential, which is far from the truth.

    The proclamation served notice that southerners who remained in rebellion would lose their slaves. He had no illusions that the proclamation would induce the South to surrender, so it follows that he expected that it would in fact free some number of slaves.

    It established emancipation as an aim of the war, which was important for two reasons: 1) European governments who were considering recognizing the Confederacy would have to explicitly take the side of slavery and 2) it let the emancipation genie out of the bottle; once emancipation was accomplished on any large scale, it would be impossible to reverse.

    Well, what really freed the vast majority of slaves was the Union army and the willingness of slaves to "vote with their feet" and leave their former masters.

    The 13th Amendment was in fact approved by Congress long before Lincoln's death; the Senate approved in in early 1864, and it was a plank in the Republican platform. The House came on board Jan. 31, 1865. It was formally ratified late in 1865, it is true, but to imply that Lincoln had virtually nothing to do with its passage is either misinformed or disingenuous.

    No, racism was endemic to practically all sections of the country.

    I don't see that the carpetbagger governments were more corrupt than the slavocracies they succeeded or the bourbon governments that eventually re-established white supremacy and disenfranchised the blacks.
     
  13. Salty

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    and likewise many Confederates fourded a society in Brazil

     
  14. ktn4eg

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    So, what you're saying is that none of the Southern states ratified any of the preceding 12 Amendments to the Constitution, right?

    So, what you're saying is that it was not a Southerner who, as one of his first duties as Speaker of the House, was to recommend that Amendments 1-10--commonly referred to as the Bill of Rights--be submitted to the several states for ratification, right?

    So, what you're saying is that none of the ships that brought these people to our shores in the first place came from the North, right?

    Personally I'd say that both the North and the South can claim equal amounts of guilt in the slavery mess.

    If that's what you call "anger" on my part, then that is your right. (I'd call it something else, but that's not revelant to this thread.) A right that I spent a good third of my life defending while serving in our nation's armed forces.

    One more thing, as Benjamin Franklin reminded us, our Constitution provides for the USA a republic -- not a democracy. If you don't believe me, then read Article IV Section 4 of the Constitution.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    PS -- Lest any of you believe that I harbor any inborn prejudice against black people, let me state (as I've done in many previous posts) that one of my greatest heroes is the late General Daniel ("Chappie") James, Jr.; one of my best friends is my Bro. Franklin (He & his family are among the many blacks in my church's membership.); one of my best prayer partners is Bro. Tubbs; and one of the privileges I have is to help serve many of the children in our AWANA youth program. All of these are black people.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    PPS- Thanks, LeBuick, for taking me off of your "Ignore" list. :thumbs: I never put you (nor anyone else) on mine.
     
  15. Thinkingstuff

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    When I lived in Tennessee I found a lot of anger still boiling below the surface at the civil war. Northerners are frowned upon even though there were many tennesseeans that fought on the side of the North. I have a lot of personal experiences of Tennessee and most of it scary. However, it is one of the beautiful places I've seen and I've been around the world a few times.
     
  16. Salty

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    You are incorrect that a (simple) majority can pass a constitutional amendment.
    It takes 2/3 of both houses of Congress and 3/4 of the Several States or Commonwealths!
     
  17. ray Marshall

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    mentioning the slaves that migrated North for freedom,,,,,The black man was also uaed as a slave in the Northern camps. They were haunted for a lifetime as a slave regardless of his geography surroundings.
     
  18. ray Marshall

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    Lincoln's thoughts were regardless of what people think was to preserve the Union. of all the states. He stated that, "If freeing the states will preserve the Union I will do that, on the other hand, If keeping the south in harmony of slavery, I will do that." He wanted to preserve the Union one way or the other.
     
  19. ray Marshall

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    Britain International Bankers had this to say about the Civil War. "We have help produce a war that will be in the hearts of the people of the United States to harbor bitterness for a hundred years." They not knowing at that time that it would last a longer time than one hundred years. Besides Great Britain's ambition was to have the United States under their control and take over this country as their own. They tried to defeat us in the British-American war. It failed. The Civil war was another cleaver scheme to get us as one of their empires. Remember the saying, "The Sun never set under the British empire."

    That in a "Nutshell" was the reason that England kept edgeing the Civil war for their intrest.
     
  20. ray Marshall

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    A "Republic is a form of government where the Government answers to the people and "GOD rule.

    A Democracy is a form of government where the states answer to the Government. and, "MAN rule.
     

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