The woman of Revelation 12

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Jude, Jul 6, 2004.

  1. Jude

    Jude
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    Rev. 12.1 A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth...


    Who is this woman? Is she Eve? Israel? Jerusalem? Mary? the Church? Who???
     
  2. MEE

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    "Who is this woman?..........Israel!

    MEE [​IMG]
     
  3. tamborine lady

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    [​IMG]

    Who is this woman? She is the church and she is about to give birth to the "remnant" church!!

    Now that I have said that, I will be going on about 10 days of R&R. when I get back, I will catch up and see what everyone gas to say about my statement!!

    Working for Jesus,

    Tam,

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  4. Paul of Eugene

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    Do you notice the resemblance to the dreams of Joseph?

    The woman is Israel, who as a nation, brought us the Christ.

    Her being taken to the wilderness is symbolic of the dispersion of the Jews without any homeland.
     
  5. BobRyan

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    It is God's people - the church in all ages. It is the church before the cross and the birth of Christ in the form of Israel (not just Judah) and the patriarchs expecting the promised Messiah. It is also the church post cross - persecuted by the beast for 1260 years.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  6. CAO

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    Who is this woman? Israel, from whom the Messiah came.
     
  7. Jude

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    The woman is obviously Mary, but, she is a 'type' for Israel, both Old and New. In the Magnificat, I think Mary understands that too.
     
  8. Doubting Thomas

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    I tend to agree with that. Biblically, figures in prophetic vision often represent more than one thing. Historically and traditionally, Mary as the bearer of God has been seen as a bridge between the old and new covenents, as (1)she bore the One who fulfilled the Old and ushered in the new; and (2)was herself a (indeed the most blessed) member of Old and then New Israel.

    So I guess the answer to your question is: Mary, Israel, and the Church.
     
  9. eschatologist

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    The woman represents the 1st century church, and the child she gave birth to was a remnant of that church which was to be martyred. Notice the greek word "caught up" is a similar to that of Thess. which means to be "snatched" or "seized." It basically means to be forcefully removed to an area which you are not accustomed to. This does not fit Jesus' ascention. Jesus was not seized or forcefully removed to go and sit at the right hand of the Father in heaven.
     
  10. MEE

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    Hmmmm.......how could the church give birth to the "man child?" Looks like the "man child" gave birth to the church.

    The "man child" (Jesus) was born in order for there to be a first century church.

    This could get deep, but that is how I see it!

    What do ya think? :cool:

    MEE [​IMG]
     
  11. eschatologist

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    The "man child" in my understanding does not represent Jesus. Jesus was not caught up as the greek word here implies. The word used when Jesus was taken up to heaven in Acts 1 has a totally different meaning. In Acts the word does not mean seized or snathched away by force. In Acts(in Jesus' case) it means a return back to to His place of origin willingly.
     
  12. Paul of Eugene

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    The "snatching" is from the point of view of the dragon - he wanted to devour the christ and was frustrated in that desire. So he goes off to make war with . . . . the church.
     
  13. eschatologist

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    It makes little difference from whose point of view the snatching takes place. My emphesis is on the greek word and what it means and how it is used. It does not make sense to address this word regarding Jesus, as He was not taken(seized) to heaven by force-- He did it willingly. If not then what kind of Lord do we serve!
     
  14. Grasshopper

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    Jer 18:13 Therefore thus saith Jehovah: Ask ye now among the nations, who hath heard such things; the virgin of Israel hath done a very horrible thing.

    Is 37:22 this is the word which Jehovah hath spoken concerning him: The virgin daughter of Zion hath despised thee and laughed thee to scorn; the daughter of Jerusalem hath shaken her head at thee.

    Is 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man-child.

    The woman is the church in the form of OT Israel.
     
  15. Paul of Eugene

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    Well, have you considered the same word is used in Jude 23: "Save others, SNATCHING them out of the fire, and on some have mercy . . . "

    Here, when the snatching in the passive sense is used, it does not bear any taint of being against the will of one who is "snatched" from the fire. And it is in the same sense - a passive use of the verb, by the way - that Christ was "snatched" away from the Devil. This occurred literally when Jesus was a baby and taken to Egypt; it also applies to his resurrection, how he was "snatched" from the grave and brought to life and then taken to heaven.

    Taking all in all, I don't think the use of this word precludes Jesus being the referent to the story.
     
  16. BobRyan

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    I disagree. Mary did not live in that 1260 year persecution period Rev 12 describes for the woman of Rev 12 after the cross.

    The entire nation of Israel was in hope and anticipation of the coming of the Messiah as Rev 12 describes the OT church. Rev 12 is correct in showing that the NT church went through the dark ages - a period of 1260 years of persecution.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  17. Doubting Thomas

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    I disagree. Mary did not live in that 1260 year persecution period Rev 12 describes for the woman of Rev 12 after the cross.

    The entire nation of Israel was in hope and anticipation of the coming of the Messiah as Rev 12 describes the OT church. Rev 12 is correct in showing that the NT church went through the dark ages - a period of 1260 years of persecution.

    In Christ,

    Bob
    </font>[/QUOTE]Where in that passage are we told that there are 1260 years or is that just a hindsight interpolation?
     
  18. neal4christ

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    I agree. [​IMG]

    I have the same question for Bob as Doubting Thomas.

    In Christ,
    Neal
     
  19. BobRyan

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    In the chapter - we have the time when the people of God are anticipating the MEssiah -- Israel pre-Messiah. We have the time following the resurrection when the same Roman power that was used to try and kill Christ - was used to try and kill the church started by Christ. The period of persecution in the dark ages was 1260 years.

    In Daniel 9 we see that a day represents a year as in the case of the 70 weeks of Daniel being 490 years.

    We see the same thing in Daniel 7 with the 1260 years (Time Times and 1/2 Time - 3.5 years = 1260 days -- 1260 years). Daniel 7 addresses the SAME persecution of the church by the Roman power that Rev 12 addresses.

    How easy is that!

    The woman flees into the wilderness and the earth "Swallows" the flood of violence and war.

    In Rev 17 the symbol of many waters is translated "For us" as many nations.

    And in numerous places in scripture the flood of water is a symbol used to represent war.

    The text makes it clear that it is the woman who flees into the wilderness AFTER the resurrection of Christ - and remains hidden for 1260 years.

    Of course - I agree that having that history in history books - to "see" makes it easier than if we knew nothing about it at all.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  20. D28guy

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    Bob,

    I dont recall ever hearing of, or reading of, it being spelled out quite like that before, but I saved your explanation there in my "documents" folder.

    Is there a book or something on a web-site that presents what you posted?

    Thanks, and God bless,

    Mike
     

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