The Word - Church

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Salty, Aug 15, 2015.

  1. Salty

    Salty
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    Lets discuss the meaning of the word "church" in Matt 16:18

    As Baptists, we believe the word "church" means a "called out Assembly.

    However, Mat 16:18 states:
    And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    So we agree that Christ formed the church - but which one - The First Baptist church of Jersuleaum,
    Trinity Baptist of Samaria, or Faith Baptist of Bethlehem ?

    So would not this particular verse - possibly pertain to a "universal church"?

    How can Mat 16:18 only refer to a local church?
     
  2. Van

    Van
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    You can find differing views of Matthew 16:18 in the commentaries, usually in an effort to deny Jesus said He would build His "church" upon Peter. The effort was well intentioned, wanting to undercut the supposed authority of the RCC Pope. But the verse is actually quite clear, the church is built upon the foundation of Christ (the corner stone) and His Apostles including Peter.

    So setting that rabbit trail aside, if we can, lets look at the Greek word translated "church" or assembly.

    The lexicons tell us that "ekklēsia" means "out from called" or "called out from." Called is used in a number of different ways but one is to refer to those who were called out. In other words, not those who heard the call, but those who relocated. Thus the church is made up of those God has transferred out of being "in Adam" and placed "in Christ." Now any group or assembly of born anew people, whether in Heaven or on earth, could be said to be an ekklesia. And in this usage, the entirety of the siblings of Christ is in view, i.e. the universal church.
     
    #2 Van, Aug 15, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2015
  3. DMorgan

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    Are we not also instructed that the Church is the body of Christ? Is it not this building, or that edifice, but the Body of believers all united with Jesus as the Head?
     
  4. Martin Marprelate

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  5. The Biblicist

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    If you question the meaning of the word "church" when used the FIRST time by the builder of the church than look at the remaining uses of the term "church" by the builder.

    1. Did he build one kind of church and then completely forget about it never to speak of it again but talk about another kind he never claimed to build?

    2. The church he claimed to build is the church he continues to talk about

    The first instance the term "church" is used in the institutional sense, which is the same institution he continues to speak about wherever it is geographically located.
     
  6. Yeshua1

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    is that church indeed the Body and bride of jesus, as all saved since Pentacost foward?
     
  7. The Biblicist

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    The etymological meaning of ekklesia is not "called out assembly" but merely "called out." However, there is a difference between the etymological meaning and the meaning by usage. Ekklesia has NEVER been used to mean simply "called out" but has a consistent history by usage to denote a called out qualified congregational body. It may be in regard to war, as those fit and qualified to assemble for fighting or it most frequently was used for the political body of qualified citizens in a city kingdom. However, it would be difficult, if not impossible to find any other meaning by usage in classical Greek and in the Septuagint other than a qualified assembled body of people that is taking up some sort of business or project.
     
  8. OnlyaSinner

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    You can find differing views of Matthew 16:18 in the commentaries, usually in an effort to deny Jesus said He would build His "church" upon Peter. The effort was well intentioned, wanting to undercut the supposed authority of the RCC Pope. But the verse is actually quite clear, the church is built upon the foundation of Christ (the corner stone) and His Apostles including Peter.

    The fact that "Peter" and "rock" are two different though related words tells me that as used in this verse, the church is not built upon Peter. The two interpretations which seem most likely to me (and it could be both at once) are that the rock is Christ, or that it is the testimony that "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." The fact that Peter spoke those words should not confer any particular authority upon him, as Jesus said in v17 that the statement originated from God rather than from a man.

    Getting back to the OP, I can see "church" here as referring specifically to the full compliment of believers on the earth.
     
    #8 OnlyaSinner, Aug 20, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 20, 2015
  9. OldRegular

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    The Southern Baptist Faith and Message of 2000 states about the Church:

    I believe in Matthew Jesus Christ is talking about the Church Universal, all the redeemed of all time. That Church is not visible as the Roman Catholics claim. Obviously every member of a local church is nor among the redeemed!
     
  10. The Biblicist

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    Yes, they have changed their position from the early edition of The Southern Baptist Faith and Message. The first editions spoke only of a local visible congregation.
     
  11. percho

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    Let me ask and I will try and explain why I ask.

    Could it also have the, "etymological meaning," "called out," with the understanding of a future, "to assemble"?

    Is there, in the future, an assembling of the called out ones? The stone was rejected, cast aside, yet at a very specific moment in time, did the rejected stone become the head of the corner?

    Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified (the rejected stone?), whom God raised from the dead (became the head of the corner?), even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Acts 4:10,11

    Is that the same moment in time spoken of here? NKJV Acts 2:31 “he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.

    Upon his soul being not left in Hades did Jesus, the rejected stone, become the head of the corner? Psalms 118:23,34 This is the LORD'S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes. This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.

    Now Jesus stated that the gates of Hades, would not prevail against the, "called out".

    From whence are the, "called out, "assembled"?

    Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”
    O Death, where is your sting?fn
    O Hades, where is your victory?”fn 1 Cor 15:51-55

    For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.fn For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thes 4:14-17

    Is that an, "assembly," of the, "called out"?

    Therefore comfort one another with these words. Verse 18
     
  12. percho

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    The word, "church".

    Could it also have the, "etymological meaning," "called out," with the understanding of a future, "to assemble"?


    I know, no Greek. In the Greek is that possible and or logical?
     

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