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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Jarthur001, Feb 10, 2010.
What state is the "world" found in verse 17. Are they believers or non believers?
What is the point you wish to make? I ask because I am trying to settle this issue of the "world" as it is used in scripture.
They are the SAME state as those in John 3:16, 1 John 5:19, and other similar passages. (wicked and ungodly -ie. unbelievers)
However, if you read this passage in context:
Jesus is talking to current disciples - believers.
The world (unbelievers) can not receive Him - because they do not see Him or know Him.. but Jesus says these disciples do. Note Jesus is contrasting these two groups, the disciples/believers with world/unbelievers, and that only at this present or current place in time.
Does this world refer to all those who will never be saved? By no means.
But simply those who at 'that the present time' are unbelievers.
Read some James on this etc, the world is at enmity with God.
Please tell me more about those can not receive now, but can receive later, but will never be saved. How do they get from not being able...to being able.
This is where it all starts though. How can we come to know God.
I'm not Allan, but I would say that the world here refers to unbelievers in general. Once someone is a believer, he is no longer "of this world."
The word "world" in John 14:17 is the exact same word as "world" used in John 3:16. This gives Calvinism a problem, because most Calvinists do not believe that Jesus died for the non-elect. But if world in John 14:17 and John 3:16 are the same (and they are), then the scriptures teach that God both loved the non-elect, and that he gave his Son Jesus for them.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
It also implies that the world can believe, and if they do should not perish but have everlasting life.
And, if "world" in John 3:16 means only the elect, you still have a problem, because John 14:17 would be saying the elect cannot receive the Spirit.
So, either way, this is a big problem for Calvinism.
I think he already answered that when he said, "because they do not see Him or know Him." When he is lifted up he will draw all men to himself. (Jn 12) How? By sending his disciples into all the world to preach the the message of Christ to every creature. He is not given himself to everyone while on earth. He chose a small remnant of Israel to teach while here on earth; the rest of Israel were being temporarily hardened. The apostles hadn't been sent to the Gentiles yet.