Theology of debt & Finance

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by evangelist6589, Aug 9, 2012.

  1. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589
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    For next month perhaps I may buy a book by Larry Burket or Randy Alcorn. Ramsey is good, but he mentions allot of self-help authors on the podcast which throws a curve ball at me. He also is ANTI any form of debt, which is not Biblical. I have heard Crown Financial say its okay to have Credit Cards as long as you pay them off, which is what I do. I have earned 2 round trip flights to california FREE, and have a FREE flight coming up and I have PAID off my credit Cards. I have also earned CASH REWARDS on my AMEX by using it. My problem is my student loans which only allows a min payment with my income.

    Also Ramsey said never ever to take a on a car loan for any reason. However when my engine fried last year I had NO CHOICE but to take on a $2,000 Car loan for a $3,000 car that I bought. The car has been paid off, but if I would have took his advice I would have gotten a clunker that would have cost me more money in the long run.

    What are your thoughts on these books? I have maxed my book budget for this month so it will have to be next month IF I buy a book.


    John
     
    #1 evangelist6589, Aug 9, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2012
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    twice went thru the 13 week finance course offerred by Crown ministries, and woul say they are more "tolerant" of God allowing for what they would label as being 'acceptable/practicle debt"...

    They are big on monthly budgeting , and do allow for credit cards/loans, as long as 'within the budget"
     
  3. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589
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    I re-subscribed to their 2M podcast and have many episodes to hear. From what they said in the past they do not endorse self-help career books.
     
  4. Yeshua1

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    pretty much the bible with them!
     
  5. mont974x4

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    How can you say its unbiblical to say we should not have debt?
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    I would say that the person is better off getting free of debt, but also stating that it is NOT sin to still have debt, nor to use debt, as long as it is "in the Budget"
     
  7. mont974x4

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    Stating your opinion on an issue is not the same as claiming it to be unbiblical. You are free ti have your opinion, but if we are claiming something is unbiblical we should be able to prove it.

    You do realize Ramsey does allow for some debt. He suggests a good down payment and a 15 year mortgage to minimize the time you are in debt. My only issue with Ramsey is that he teaches the tithe as being for today, but at least he says it is not a hill to die on.
     
  8. Yeshua1

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    what i am saying is not supportable from the Bible is that a Chrsitian MUST be debt free, or else is in sin!

    that ANY debt taken on would be wrong....

    So think we are in agreement here!

    My main "beef" with brother Dave is his over emphasis that God wants ALl to be wealthy, and that spiritual finances not spoken of enough!
     
  9. mont974x4

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    Dave is not a pastor or spiritual advisor. His ministry is to teach people how to handle their finances biblically. So it stands to reason that would be his focus. He does not teach God wants you to be wealthy. He teaches God wants us to be good stewards of all He has given us. God does bless obedience, and Dave wants people to obey God and be blessed. In some cases that is wealth, in others it is not. Now, just consider how blessed it would be to not be in debt?

    I believe debt is a sin and my bride and I are working our way out of debt.

    Rom 13:8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.

    Granted in context finance is a small part of this passage. That does not negate its importance.

    Pro 22:7 The rich rules over the poor, And the borrower becomes the lender's slave.

    If we are indebted to someone else then our efforts are distracted, and divided, from where they should be. Debt gets in the way of our being able to fully serve God.

    Jesus put it this way:
    Mat 6:24 "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.

    There is nothing wrong with having wealth. The problem comes in when we live for it. When we are stuck in debt, then this is a problem.
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    Not disagreeing with you, just was stating that unless the other person receiving his advise is a Christian, in the long run, really doesn't matter!

    And do applaude your efforts to get debt free...

    just saying that we should ALL be good stewrards of what God gave us to manage for Him, but just wish that people could get more excited about having all of their din debt removed by God than their money debt, thats all!
     
  11. mont974x4

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    One of the times I taught the FPU course I made it available to the public. I used it as an outreach and a chance to show unbelievers that God has something to say to them. They can see that God does care about their daily struggles and loves them and there are practical things to be learned from Him.

    Does the sin problem need to be addressed? Absolutely! I just don't expect a math teacher to teach English.
     
  12. Yeshua1

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    But a Chrsitian should always somehow end up talking about Christ!
     
  13. mont974x4

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    I don't think Dave does a bad job of teaching stewardship and reverence to God in how we handle finances. He does not hide his faith or the fact that His faith informs his ministry at all. You obviously disagree. That's OK.
     
  14. Steadfast Fred

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    Biggest problem I have with Crown Ministries is they teach that the New Testament Believer should be tithing his money. A totally unscriptural teaching.

    Dave Ramsey also teaches the tithe of money.
     
  15. Yeshua1

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    Well thast is a 'debateable" issue, as think can support either viewpoint from the Bible though!

    Would say at least Crown does not recommend "goofy" authors!
     
  16. Steadfast Fred

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    Actually, the Bible does not support a tithe of money for the New Testament Believer.
     
  17. Yeshua1

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    I personally agree with you, but just saying that many others in good conscience hold that it does, and would say that as long as they hold it to themselves and God, and force all to live like that, OK with it!
     
  18. evangelist6589

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    With my income it is IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME to not have debt.
     
  19. evangelist6589

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    So you like all the self-help/psychology based garbage he recommends to read ?

    Thou Shall Prosper? Who moved my Cheese? Quitter?
     
  20. evangelist6589

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    Have you read Thou Shall prosper or Quitter or 48 Days to the Work you love? He endorses these self-help books and they do have a prosperity/fulfillment theology in them.




     

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