This generation

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Gerad, Aug 17, 2005.

  1. Gerad

    Gerad
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    Lk.21:32 - All fulfilled before "this generation" passed.

    Lk.17:25 - Jesus rejected of "this generation".

    Matt.23:36 - The generation Jesus was speaking to.

    Lk.11:50 - The contemporary generation of that day would pay the price for the blood of the prophets.

    Preterism is the default hermeneutic when it comes to eschatology.
     
  2. Ed Edwards

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    Futurism
    is the default hermeneutic for eschatology
    among those who have dictionaries [​IMG]

    Luk 21:32 (KJV1769 with Strong's numbers):
    Verily281 I say3004 unto you,5213 (3754)
    This3778 generation1074 shall not3364
    pass away,3928 till2193, 302 all3956 be fulfilled.1096

    G1074
    γενεά
    genea
    ghen-eh-ah'
    From (a presumed derivative of) G1085;
    a generation; by implication an age
    (the period or the persons)
    : - age,
    generation, nation, time.


    BTW, the pretribulation rapture/resurrection
    is so LOUD it will wake the dead [​IMG] I think
    if it happens, it would be probably be
    noticed by everybody in the world except a few
    in drunken/drugged stuppors.
     
  3. Ed Edwards

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    I guess i aught to add 'generation' stuff to
    my 'age' word study:

    -------------------------------
    "AGE" in the New King James Version (nKJV).

    The KJV tends to confuse the Greek "aeon" /age/ and
    Greek "cosmos" /world/ and calles them both "world".
    So i'll use the nKJV for my word study on "age".
    References to how old someone is (AKA: "age") have been eliminated.


    Mt 12:32 (nKJV):
    Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man,
    it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit,
    it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

    Mt 13:39 (nKJV):
    The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest
    is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.

    *souls shall be harvested at the end of this age

    Mt 13:40 (nKJV):
    Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire,
    so it will be at the end of this age.

    Mt 13:49 (nKJV):
    So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come
    forth, separate the wicked from among the just,

    Mt 24:3 (nKJV):
    Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came
    to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be?
    And what will be the sign of Your coming,
    and of the end of the age?"

    Mt 28:20 (nKJV):
    teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you;
    and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.

    *Jesus is with us completely to the end of the age.
    *the age has an end

    Mr 10:30 (nKJV):
    who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time--houses
    and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands,
    with persecutions--and in the age to come, eternal life.

    *people will have eternal life, in the age to come

    Lu 18:30 (nKJV):
    who shall not receive many times more in this present time,
    and in the age to come eternal life."

    Lu 20:34-35 (nKJV):
    34. And Jesus answered and said to them, "The sons of this age marry
    and are given in marriage.
    35. But those who are counted worthy to attain that age,
    and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;

    *there is a future age when marriage is NOT, after resurrection from the dead

    1Co 1:20 (nKJV):
    Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer
    of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

    *this age has a disputer

    1Co 2:6 (nKJV):
    However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature,
    yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age,
    who are coming to nothing.

    *the wisdom of this age will come to nothing
    *the rules of this age will come to nothing

    1Co 2:8 (nKJV):
    which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known,
    they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

    1Co 3:18 (nKJV):
    Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems
    to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise.

    2Co 4:4 (nKJV):
    whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe,
    lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ,
    who is the image of God, should shine on them.

    *the god of this age is NOT Jesus, the Christ

    Ga 1:4 (nKJV):
    who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver
    us from this present evil age, according to the will
    of our God and Father,

    *this age is evil

    Eph 1:21 (nKJV):
    far above all principality and power and might and dominion,
    and every name that is named, not only in this age
    but also in that which is to come.

    *there is an age to follow this age

    Eph 6:12 (nKJV):
    For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities,
    against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age,
    against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

    * this age is dark

    1Ti 6:17 (nKJV):
    Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty,
    nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives
    us richly all things to enjoy.

    * this age has rich people in it

    Tit 2:12 (nKJV):
    teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts,
    we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,

    Heb 6:5 (nKJV):
    and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,

    This great section on the Security of the Believer
    speaks of an "age to come".
    * there will be "good ... powers" in the age to come.

    AGES in the KJV1769:

    Eph 2:7 (KJV1769):
    That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches
    of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

    **There will be ages after this age.

    Eph 3:5 (KJV1769):
    Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men,
    as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

    Eph 3:21 (KJV1769):
    Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages,
    world without end. Amen.

    Col 1:26 (KJV1769):
    Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages
    and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

    *There were ages before this age.
    *ages are similiar to generations
     
  4. Helen

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    As Ed mentioned so well, the word 'generation' has a number of meanings in Hebrew culture. It can mean a specific period of time, or a group of people, or even a culture itself or a subculture within a culture. To insist on one meaning throughout the Bible not only makes nonsense out of some of it, but denies the way the word was used by the writers themselves.
     
  5. Plain Old Bill

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    You might want to get e-sword . Just type e-sword in your search window and hit go. Select e-sword and start downloading. There are many Bible study helps there for you.
     
  6. robycop3

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    It's quite obvious that the generation in which Jesus lived as a man was NOT the generation of "the end". Nor was that of 70 AD. Why does anyone believe such foolishness when history plainly proves it wrong?
     
  7. Squire Robertsson

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    Which is why in cases like this I prefer to use the word "model". One can set up various models and see which one fits history as we know it the best. Remember The Law says to try the prophets and see if what they say comes to pass.

    Mind you, my basic rule of hermenutics states:
    In other words, allegorization is a tool used only in cases where there is a clear indication for its use. Also, "we don't know", "Scripture isn't as clear as we'd like it to be" are acceptable answers to some eschatological questions.
     
  8. robycop3

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    Ever read about the famous agnostic of a hundred years ago, Robert Ingersoll? He denied the Scriptures because he couldn't imagine a strong Jewish state again, nor anything being seen all over the world at the same time. However, time and reality have proven those Scriptures, same as the proof of the sun and moon stopping in their courses has been among ancient writings and legends all along.

    To me, the defining moment of global telecasting came when JFK was shot. The defining moment of Jewish military might came in the 1967 war.(I was in the US Nav at the time) Now, while the Scriptures don't directly allude to Israel's military might, they DO say that Egypt will fear the Jews' every move...AND THAT'S COME TO PASS, whether Egypt will admit it or not.

    Scripture alse refers to the Jews' worshipping in their TEMPLE again...and it IS an aim of the Jews to rebuild the temple. There's been some recent controversy about the exact site of the old Temple; there are some Jewish scholars who don't believe it was where the Dome of the Rock now sits.

    No matter where its exact site was, I 100% believe GOD will bring it to pass when the time comes.

    I lean torard the view that the generation which sees some of the signs shall see them all, that all shall occur within the normal span of one generation.

    And, Squire, I very much agree with your stated rule of hermeneutics!
     
  9. Squire Robertsson

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    Before say 1900, all eschatological models could been seen as running dead even in validity. Up to 1918, the intangible problem for the a- and post-mill positions was the substituting the Church for Israel. The tangible problem was the idea that The Church would make the world better and usher in the Kingdom. WW1 and Prohibition put paid to those ideas for many.

    In the early 1900s, these could be seen as minor quibles. If anything, the post-mill model looked real good. Then, HiStory took a turn into the weeds.
     
  10. Squire Robertsson

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    But then it may not. That is why I leave the timing up to the Lord. I live like He'll come back in the next minute. I plan and work like He'll not be back for a hundred years.
     
  11. Ed Edwards

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    The o.p. here is by a poster who posts half
    new threads, half follow-up posts. He doesn't
    follow up, can you spell 'Troll'?

    However, the responders here are people i like
    to talk to:

    -----------------------------
    The BB now has way to many Eschatological topics.
    I'm spending more time on Eschatology than
    working :(

    I'll be responding to these and other matters
    at this location:
    http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3350.html
    Click it and check it out.

    (BTW, the non-baptists seem to be more
    congenial than baptists anyway :confused: )
     
  12. Grasshopper

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    Perhaps because they believe the Bible:

    1Pe 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand : be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

    Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;


    Perhaps many like you are confused as to what "end" Jesus and the NT writers were speaking of.
     
  13. Johnv

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    This must from our point in time refer to the past, since "at hand" referrs to it being so near to them that it's within reach, not something that wasn't going to happen foro another 2000+ years.

    Again, the "last days" must refer to the time they were written, aka, the past, since it seems a bit of a stretch to think that "these last days" refer to a time 200+ years in the future.
     
  14. Grasshopper

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    No, it’s from the time reference of those to whom it was written.

    Of course it is a stretch. The “last days” were a 1st century occurrence. However there are some on this board who will try to convince you the "last days" is the entirety of the Church Age.
     
  15. Ed Edwards

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    Amen, Brother Grasshopper -- Preach it! [​IMG]

    Not only that, God's Holy Written Word
    will convince many:
    --------------------------------------
    I already heard arguments against the
    "last days" being a /human/ long time
    AS PREDICTED by the Prophet Peter:

    2 Peter 3:3-4 (KJV1611 Edition):
    Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last dayes
    scoffers
    , walking after their owne lusts,
    4 And saying, Where is the promise of his comming?
    For since the fathers fell asleepe, all things continue
    as they were from the beginning of the creation.

    On the Day of Pentacost (Biblical) in the year AD33 (my estimate)
    Peter said:

    Acts 2:15-21 (KJV1611 Edition):

    For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but
    the third houre of the day.
    16 But this is that which was spoken by the Prophet Ioel,
    17 And it shall come to passe in the last dayes (saith God)
    I will powre out of my Spirit vpon all flesh:
    and your sonnes and your daughters shall prophesie,
    and your yong men shall see visions, and your old men
    shall dreame dreames:
    18 And on my seruants, and on my handmaidens,
    I will powre out in those daies of my Spirit,
    and they shall prophesie:
    19 And I wil shew wonders in heauen aboue,
    and signes in the earth beneath: blood, and fire,
    and vapour of smoke.
    20 The Sunne shall be turned into darkenesse,
    and the Moone into blood, before that great and
    notable day of the Lord come
    .
    21 And it shall come to passe, that whosoeuer shall
    call on the Name of the Lord, shalbe saued

    So Peter (speaking for the Lord God, isn't he?)
    says that the "last days" begins with the receiving of
    the Holy Spirit and ends with
    "20 The Sunne shall be turned into darkenesse,
    and the Moone into blood, before that great and
    notable day of the Lord come. "
    During this time, "whosoeuer shall
    call on the Name of the Lord, shalbe saued".

    After that, when the "last days" ends at the pretribulation
    rapture beginning of the "Day of the Lord",
    then it is very likely that Gentiles cannot/will_not
    call on the Name of hte Lord and thus be saved.
    (other scrpture indicates some may give their lives
    to be 'saved')

    Whereas the pretribulation rapture/resurrection has NOT
    taken place and it is the year 2005 (2005-33 = 1,972 years
    ago) -- it is obvious that the LAST days stated by
    Peter and predicted earlier by Ioel the Prophet
    is a Long period for a human
    but short (only two of God's "days").

    Maranatha!
    Even so, Lord Jesus come soon!
     
  16. Gold Dragon

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  17. Squire Robertsson

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    I'll not debate the subject of what is the proper model of hermenutics, here. Good night, there must be shelf yards of books on the topic. All, I will say is: I didn't pull my position out of my ear. Though, my posts may read that way.

    I refer you to Virkler's book Hermenutics.

    And please note, I don't refuse to use the allegorical method. I just confine my use of it to fewer circumstances than you do.

    [ August 29, 2005, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: Squire Robertsson ]
     
  18. Ed Edwards

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  19. gb93433

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    Would probably help if you took a look at some extrabiblical documents around the same time as the NT.
     
  20. Gold Dragon

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    I agree that by NT times, the distinction between allegorical and non-allegorical writings and interpretations existed in the study of literature, largely through the influence of Greek philosophy on the known world at that time.

    I don't want to hijack this thread any more than I have already so I'll start a new one.
     

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