This Generation

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by MarkLowe, Sep 26, 2008.

  1. MarkLowe

    MarkLowe
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2008
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    This Generation

    What Did Jesus Mean when He said This Generation during his Preaching Matt23-34
    γενεά
    genea
    ghen-eh-ah'
    a generation; by implication an age (the period or the persons): - age, generation, nation, time.



    Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
    Mat 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:


    Mat 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
    Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

    Who was this generation of vipers?


    Mat 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
    Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
    Mat 23:16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides,
    Mat 23:17 Ye fools and blind:
    Mat 23:19 Ye fools and blind:
    Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! .
    Mat 23:24 Ye blind guides,
    Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
    Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, .
    Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! .
    Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
    Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! .
    Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

    The Generation of Vipers were according to the Word of God is the Generation of Scribes and Pharisees contemporaneous to Jesus and His ministry.

    Mat 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
    Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

    What generation saw this sign of Jonas? Again the contemporaneous generation of Jesus Christ.

    Mat 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
    Mat 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
    Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
    Mat 12:44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
    Mat 12:45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

    Jesus Spent his ministry casting out devils and binding the strongman of Jerusalem which was Satan himself, and then warned them that the time would come when those spirits would come back with 7 times the strength and set upon them.

    History shows that in the final years of Jerusalem natural Israel became full of demonic people committing atrocities.

    So What am I pointing out?

    Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
    Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
    Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

    Mat 23:35 That upon you [/B][the generation of that time] may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
    Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

    Jesus was very clear to the house of Israel they would not escape judgment and in fact the very generation that heard his voice would have all these things come upon them.

    Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

    Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

    Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

    Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

    Peter himself warned Jerusalem of the coming judgment.

    Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.



    Again I say the Generation in question is that of the contemporaries of Jesus.

    Upon understanding the timing of the Generation to receive the judgment pronounced by Jesus was indeed the very Generation He was speaking to, we can further understand his prophecy of the great tribulation.

    Jesus began to warn who, the first century disciples of trials to soon come upon them?


    Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
    Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
    Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
    Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
    Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
    The end of the age!

    Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

    Col 1:5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
    Col 1:6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

    Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

    Paul was very clear that the Gospel had been preached in the entire World at the time of his writing both Colossians and Romans.

    According to Jesus words the End should come after that…!!


    Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

    According to the Word when would the abomination of desolation take place?


    Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

    Messiah would be cut off, (crucified) then an Army would come that would destroy both City and Sanctuary…

    Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

    Jesus said that City would be Jerusalem!

    So within the Generation of Jesus Preaching, within 40 years… Armies would surround Jerusalem and Destroy both City and Sanctuary…

    This happened in history.. 66 AD Roman armies surrounded Jerusalem and for 3 ½ years they trod down that City killing 1.1 million Jews and Destroying the Temple.



    Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


    This Has taken Place Just as Jesus Said, Just as his audience understood and Just as his Disciples preached!

    There will be no future “Great Tribulation” no Future “Rapture” these are all false doctrines that entered into the church from demonic lies.
     
  2. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Next I'll define 'generation' from the Bible. The definition will blow the O.P (opening post) out of the water.

    But for now:

    From the opening post:
    // This happened in history.. 66 AD Roman armies surrounded Jerusalem and for 3 ½ years they trod down that City killing 1.1 million Jews and Destroying the Temple.

    Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

    This Has taken Place Just as Jesus Said, Just as his audience understood and Just as his Disciples preached!

    There will be no future “Great Tribulation” no Future “Rapture” these are all false doctrines that entered into the church from demonic lies. //

    This saying is self-contradictory.
    The Lord says: // ... then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be //
    You say that this happened in in AD 0070.

    History says (I have spoken to eye witnesses) that Hitler's Lieutenants killed 6,000,000 Jews (this was half the Jews in the World at the time) in 1942-1945. I personally lost my father to stop Hitler from taking over the world and killing All Jews. Sorry, but 6,000,000 Jews dying in 3.5 years is WORSE than 1,000,000 Jews (1/3 of the population of Israel at that time). dying in 3.5 years.

    History says (I have spoken to no eye witnesses) that in 1347-1351 some 25 Million Europeans were killed in the Bubonic Plague. My rich uncle made sure I had my anti-'Bubonic Plague' inoculation. But anyway, this was about 1/3 of the population of Europe including 1/3 of the Jewish Population (about 2 million Jews out of 6 million). This was 3.5 years also and WORSE than in 70AD event.

    Timedoes not allow me to tell about Genghis Khan & Kublai Khan's Mongol Horde and the Inquisition (Christians killing Jews especially in Spain & France) of the 13th Century (1201-1300); the killing of 7 Million Native Americans (North & South America) in the 16th Century (1501-1600) (Christians again).

    Sorry, lots of things happened to the Jewish Brethren of Messiah Jesus that are worse than what happened in AD 66 -70. None of them will be as bad as the STILL COMING Great Tribulation will be.
     
    #2 Ed Edwards, Sep 26, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2008
  3. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Matthew 1:1-2, 1:16-17 -


    Mat 1:1 The booke of the generation of Iesus Christ, the sonne of Dauid, the sonne of Abraham.
    Mat 1:2 Abraham begate Isaac,
    and Isaac begate Iacob,
    and Iacob begate Iudas
    and his brethren.
    ...
    Mat 1:16 And Iacob begate Ioseph the husband of Mary, of whom was borne Iesus, who is called Christ.
    Mat 1:17 So all the generations from Abraham to Dauid,
    are fourteene generations:
    and from Dauid vntill the carying away into Babylon,
    are foureteene generations:
    and from the carying away into Babylon vnto Christ,
    are fourteene generations.

    Note that the 'generation' of Messiah Jesus last for 42 of the other 'generations'.

    Here 'generation' means something way different than what the opening post understands about 'generation'.

    The problem is a total misunderstanding in about 8% of the Christian world about 'dispensations' than the real Biblical meaning of 'dispensation'. Then for good measure, there are about 12% of Baptists who give lip service to the Biblicak Doctrine: Priesthood of the Believer, who don't believe the companion Biblical Doctrine: Soul Compenency.

    I'll put the dispensation writing next post.
     
    #3 Ed Edwards, Sep 26, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2008
  4. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't come here to debate other people's 'Dispensation Doctrine', I come to tell Ed's Dispensation Doctrine.

    Ed's Dispensation Doctrine:

    Dispensation in the NT, KJV1769 family of editions (bold by Ed):

    1 Corinthians 9:17 (KJV1769):
    For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward:
    but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel
    is committed unto me.

    Ephesians 1:10 (KJV1769):
    That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might
    gather together in one all things in Christ, both
    which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

    Ephesians 3:2 (KJV1769):
    If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God
    which is given me to you-ward:

    Colossians 1:25 (KJV1769):
    Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation
    of God
    which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

    The Holy Spirit hasn't shown me a lot more than is here. I do know the Greek word being translated here as 'dispensation' is the Greek word from which we get 'economy'.

    I do know (IN SUMMARY OF THE BIBLE off the top of my head) that this is what the economy of God is like:

    Bible Prophetic times:
    'hour' = the appropriate time
    'day' = the appropriate time
    or '1 day' = 1,000 years
    '½-week' = 3½-years
    '1 day' = 'week' = 7 years
    'month' = the appropriate time
    year = the appropriate time

    Other 'economy of God facts':

    the blind see
    the dead live
    the deaf hear
    the lame leap like deer
    the first is last
    the last is first
    Jesus Saves (totally!)
    God Rules!!

    Frequently the Bible discusses what is to be is discussed in either present tense (is done) or past tense (done already done).

    So a study of Greek tenses is generally frustrating. Us human type people can only do one day at a time. God can do everyday at a time - I think God may have invented all the days at the same time?
     
    #4 Ed Edwards, Sep 26, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2008
  5. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Good point Bro. Ed.

    Oddly enough, I was thinking about this very thing today.
     
  6. Benjamin

    Benjamin
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2004
    Messages:
    4,893
    Likes Received:
    112
    Good thing to think about...(a lot of instruction in the Bible about being prepared)... just in case you don't sprout wings and fly (escape) out of here first. :)
    :tonofbricks:
     
  7. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm assuming you don't believe in the pre-trib rapture?

    Are you Amil?
     
  8. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    She who posts last wins the Debate :thumbs:
     
  9. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ok.

    :D
     
  10. FriendofSpurgeon

    FriendofSpurgeon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2003
    Messages:
    3,056
    Likes Received:
    36
    Mark --

    First, welcome to the BB.

    Second, I tend to agree that when Jesus and others used the term "this generation" they really meant this generation. And when Jesus and others said the judgment was coming "soon" they really meant soon. [Note - I've always found it rather odd that those who say that soon doesn't mean soon are the same people that insist that day means day back in Genesis 1.]

    Third, if you really want to have an honest & open debate, I would start out with a smaller post -- 1400+ words is a lot to digest.

    Fourth, I think you will find that a lot of good folks have differing opinions on the last days. You may wish to stay away from accusing them of believing "false doctrines that entered into the church from demonic lies."

    Fifth, this is really a non-essential, isn't it?? We're not talking about the Trinity, the virgin birth, the atonement, etc. While I have my own beliefs about the subject, I think we should all be a bit more pan-millennial -- understanding that it really will all pan out in the end.

    FOS
     
  11. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amen, Brother FriendofSpurgeon -- Preach it!

    Of course, by your "I tend to agree that when Jesus and others used the term "this generation" they really meant this generation" means you believe he mean your meaning of the term "this generation" . Which, BTW, you did not tell us what you thought it meant.

    I believe that 'this generation' speaks of the next age (Jesus taught between ages) which is the name we live in: the Church age (AKA: Age of the Gentiles, Gentile Age, this current Evil Age, etc.

    Of course, by your "And when Jesus and others said the judgment was coming "soon" they really meant soon." I note also that you didn't define what it was you agreed 'soon' mean. There was a judgment came soon (within one a 40-year-generation) of the Jews in AD 66-70. But the other generation (the 2,000-3,000 year generation) will also end soon /2 or 3 of God's days/.

    But I agree with your statement AMEN-wise, if you use MY definitions of 'generation' and 'soon'.
     
  12. FriendofSpurgeon

    FriendofSpurgeon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2003
    Messages:
    3,056
    Likes Received:
    36

    Thanks Ed. You know I love you, but we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. It's rather hard for me (as a Presbyterian) to get on board with a dispy, pre-mill view. While I tend to agree with Sproul (no surprise there), I'm pretty pan-mill about things.
     
  13. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    8,870
    Likes Received:
    3
    Mark Louw,

    RE: opening post. EdEdwards has just opened another thread on the Kingdom of God. These two threads running at the same time, are going to make things difficult for discussion.

    Can we not somehow get the one halted, in order to get everyone's concentration on the one thread?
     
  14. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    The "this generation" in Matthew 24:34 is a reference to the generation alive at the time of the events described earlier in the chapter.
     

Share This Page

Loading...