THOSE GIVEN

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Roy1, Sep 2, 2004.

  1. Roy1

    Roy1
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    Has anyone any thoughts on THOSE GIVEN of the Father in,
    John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

    John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

    Any thoughts on who is given would be appreciated.

    I am not looking for a Calvinistic or Arminian debate. Just your thoughts on any side of the fence or ones in between.

    Roy.
    Thanks [​IMG]
     
  2. DavidsAngel

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    Roy after reading this in two differnt versions and thinking about it for a few minutes my take on it is simply this.

    He's talking about the desire to be saved. He's talking about the foreknowledge of knowing who will accept him and those who would not.

    I think he's talking about God knows who will be saved and who will reject his son.
     
  3. Me2

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    there are a two OT premises to mention here.

    God had originally married Israel. this marriage ended in divorcement. now God couldnt remarry Israel (unless he died and arose from the dead)

    the divorce decree would be no longer apply and be nullified at Gods "death" (Israels husband).

    which upon further investigation. he did. and the new marriage can occur with the new (yet old) bride.

    and the second concept is the middle eastern custom of prearrainging of the sons marriage. the father is giving or arrainging the bride to be "given" to the son to be wed.

    in the special case of the bride. it is the scattered tribes representing the families of israel, the former wife. it is being called from the four corners of the earth. the father is drawing or assembling the bride to be given to the son to be wed. "all that the father gives me", "I will in no wise cast out".
     
  4. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
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    Many in the Calvinist persuasion use this Scripture to defend their position in election.
    They say that those whom the Father elected to glory based on His mercy and not on any foreseen action on their part, will all be effectually called and come to Christ, believing on Him.

    That necessarily implies that all the elect will hear the gospel, and all will come to Christ thru the effectual call of the Holy Spirit manifested through the preaching of the gospel.

    However, these same Calvinists (please note that I do no make a sweeping statement of ALL Calvinists), will also insist that they do not believe in gospel regeneration and believe that it is the Spirit that regenerates.

    But, if so, then, the above view necessarily confines the activity of the Holy Spirit and His ability to regenerate to the immediate geographical and timely location of the gospel preacher.

    Therefore, I personally believe that Jesus Christ was addressing those who were then hearing what He had to say, and referring to those who will come to Him during His earthly ministry in the geographical location of His earthly ministry.
     
  5. Roy1

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    Thanks for the input so far guys.

    It is interesting to hear your views.

    Is there any one else with any thoughts on these verses. Surely some more would have considered these verses at some time or other.

    They can be a cause of much confusion and debate. But as I have said I am only looking for your thoughts on this matter.

    Roy
     
  6. Bro.Bill

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    All who will be saved.Emphisizes the unity of the Father's will and the Son's will.Emphasizes also God's sovereignty.
    Unbeleif stops people from comming to Christ.They don't accept His words and therefore are not drawn to Him.
     

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