Those In Hell, When Did They Reject God

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by ForumChaplain, Oct 27, 2002.

  1. ForumChaplain

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    Same question that i have asked fifty times without answer.

    They refuse to repent, or it is impossible for them to repent. Which one is it. (Total depravity Ken, did you forget)

    For a person that is born totally depraved, unable to do anything except be haters of God. When, O'When did they ever have opportunity to repent. When in their miserable wretched lives did they ever have opportunity to repent.

    You never repented, God repented you. He made it possible, but he never made it possible for the other guy.

    Please answer this question. When did they have opportunity to repent??

    [ October 27, 2002, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: Chappie ]
     
  2. KenH

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    When they heard the command in the gospel to repent and believe.

    It sound like Anti-Calvinists think that Calvinists are saying that the Bible teaches that God stands in the way of sinners coming to Christ. We do not teach such a thing, or even imply such. Jesus has always, and will always, welcome each sinner that comes to Him in repentance and faith. When a sinner hears the gospel he is obligated to follow the command to repent and believe.

    Now, someone may ask where did man's inability come from? It came about when Adam, as the representative of the human race, sinned in the Garden of Eden. And we were right there with him in his sin as we were in his loins. And we would have made the same choice.

    Now, someone may ask why does Adam have to be my representative? Sorry, but we don't get to pick our representatives. The first Adam represented all of his people and when he died spiritually, all of his people died with him. The second Adam, Jesus, represented all of His people and when he perfectly obeyed God, all of His people perfectly obeyed God with Him. As the gospel of Matthew says, "He shall save His people from their sins."(Matthew 1:21)

    Ken
    A Spurgeonite [​IMG]

    [ October 27, 2002, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ]
     
  3. tyndale1946

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    If God the Father gave them?... And God the Son saved them?... And the Holy Spirit draws and brings them?... Unless they come in this manner they are rejected... but notice HE brings them as it is impossible for them to bring themselves!... And that brethren is Amazing Grace that saved a wretch like me!... Brother Glen [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  4. Frogman

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    All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. John 6.37

    God Bless.

    Bro.Dallas
     
  5. shilo

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    The problem with this is that in order for the people to be drawn to Jesus they had to have learned of him through the teaching of God and the scriptures. (6:45)

    Second How did the Holy spirit draw people say in John..when No Holy Spirit was Given until Jesus Was Crucified..

    Neverthe less I tell you the truth It is expedient that I go away FOR IF I DO NOT GO AWAY THE COMFORTER WILL NOT COME UNTO YOU; But if I depart He shall reprove THE WORLD of sin

    So who That believed in John were drawn by the Holy spirit..especially when it said that God drew people through the scriptures?? ( his WORD)

    Not only that..Jesus Said that the Holy Spirit when he came would reprove the WORLD of sin..not just the elect.

    No the Bible doesn't say it is impossible for man to bring themselves God and recieve salvation.you have to assume that.

    As matter of fact thaere are many places in the bible where man seeks God and mercy and God hears and forgives him.

    "I thought on my ways, and Turned my feet unto thy testimonies"

    Unsaved unregernerate man speaking there..notice no Holy spirit Drawing him or making him come..the man doesn it all on his own.
     
  6. Rev. G

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    Those In Hell, When Did They Reject God?

    For their entire lives.
     
  7. ForumChaplain

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    So, based on your answer, the elect are those that hear the gospel, repent, and believe. I hope that you are not now giong to to turn this around and say that only the elect of God: Chosen in him before the world was created are the only ones that can repent and believe.

    So that means that men are not born so depraved that they cannot hear the gospel, repent and believe. So all men have opportunity to be saved... No sign here of efficacious grace for some, common grace for all the rest. Now we can praise God...
     
  8. ForumChaplain

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    Brother Glen, untill you see your name in scripture, are you positive that it was not that wretch standing next to you that was really saved.(I mean elected) The Lord does work in mysterious ways.

    That wretch might be in heaven looking down on you right now. [​IMG] Tell me about your fruit....

    Are you positive that you are not one of those, depart from me; i never knew you kinda guys...

    They thought that they had it made too. I wonder just how many of those so called elect will end up having to spend their eternity in the same fire with those that they cared so little for in this life. Betcha some do...

    Wonder how much amazing grace they will sing then...

    [ October 27, 2002, 11:00 PM: Message edited by: Chappie ]
     
  9. npetreley

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    I was going to say last Thursday afternoon at about 2:11 Central Standard Time, but I think your answer is more accurate.
     
  10. Bible-belted

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    I was going to say last Thursday afternoon at about 2:11 Central Standard Time, but I think your answer is more accurate.</font>[/QUOTE]Well, whatever time it was I can tell you it happened a 1/2 hour later in Newfoundland.

    That's a Canadian joke.
     
  11. Frogman

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    This would appear to be the case to anyone possesses only this portion of Scripture. Where is it written this is speaking of an unregenerate person? No where.

    The context says: "Thou art my portion, O Lord: I have said that I would keep thy words. I intreated thy favor with my whole heart: be merciful unto me according to thy word. I thought on my ways, and turned my feet unto thy testimonies. I made haste, and delayed not to keep thy commandments. The bands of the wicked have robbed me: but I have not forgotten thy law. At midnight I will rise to give thanks unto thee because of thy righteous judgements. I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts. The earth, O Lord, is full of thy mercy: teach me thy statutes.

    And these only the vss. immediately surrounding your chosen text.

    The Psalm itself begins by speaking of those who are "undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the Lord."

    In what way we would ask, the way, the old paths, having entered into a relationship with God, (because of the revelation of His Righteousness), these are they that seek with the whole heart to remain in that way and not depart.

    Yes this Psalm most definitely speaks of our brethren and not of those of the world who cannot receive the things of the Spirit.

    note vss. 9 & 10; 11-16; 17-24; the last of which cannot be a word of truth, or Romans 8.7 cannot be true, thus the claim that the Word of God is contradictory to itself is correct.

    Choose any portions of Scripture; but refrain from choosing only that which seems to support the gospel of the grace of man.

    We can also prove to people the Bible says there is no God; we can also prove to people the Bible would have them pluck out their eye, or cut off their arm, or even that men are gods.

    This Psalm is far from the words of an evil heart, but those of a heart that knows God and has strayed note vs. 67: "Before I was afflicted I went astray: but now have I kept thy word."

    God Bless you in you walk and service to Him.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  12. Frogman

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    "This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." John 6.29

    In answer to vs. 28; the question of the Jews: "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?"

    Note earnestly the first part of vs. 29: This is the work of God,

    What we may ask is the work of God?

    Answer: that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

    Man nowhere is authorized to perform this work; it is all of God; or it is not at all.

    God Bless
    Bro. Dallas
     
  13. Frogman

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    First of all our names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life not scripture. If it were limited to scripture, the bounds would already be set; and even some who are found in that Word without God would have a hope yet.

    Next, it is very likely the wretch standing next to anyone of us shall receive that same amazing Grace and discover his/her own election.

    Sometime when you have nothing else to do read Isaiah 55. 1-3; Consider how anyone is to "buy" anything without money to buy. Then study the Hebrew word we have translated for "buy" and see what the prophet was speaking of; then consider the "sure mercies of David." Who is this speaking of? Literally David?

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas
     
  14. Frogman

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    This is limited to one man and one man only.

    Heb. 9.14-15
    5.8-9; 1.3

    God Bless
    Bro. Dallas
     
  15. ForumChaplain

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    Another problem Bro.Dallas. That book has not even been opened yet.
    So, to be elected, one must be standing next to the elect.

    Bro Dallas, your theology does not withstand the scrutiny of scripture. For the sake of fairness, I will say this this way.

    I am truely amazed and confounded at just how blind one of us must be.
     
  16. ForumChaplain

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    OK, I believe that. So, when did election occur.

    BTW, When did their rejection become final:

    [ October 28, 2002, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: Chappie ]
     
  17. Frogman

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    It is opened each time a person is saved by the Grace of God; for they are then shown there name written there upon its pages. Rev. 13.8: "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

    Even as Christ stood as the lamb slain from the foundation of the world, so the book of life of the Lamb was written, by the hand of God, according to His Sovereign Mercy and Grace.

    No, to be elected is the work of God, it has nothing to do to where a person is standing, however, they must hear the message of the Gospel, preached, not just taught, nor written in tract form, nor just witnessed, but it must be preached by the Holy Spirit of God; all is done by the Will of God, to fulfill His purposes, and for the praise of the glory of His grace.

    &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"&gt;quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;&lt;font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"&gt;Bro Dallas, your theology does not withstand the scrutiny of scripture. For the sake of fairness, I will say this this way.

    I am truely amazed and confounded at just how blind one of us must be.

    [ October 30, 2002, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: Frogman ]
     
  18. ScottEmerson

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    Non sequitar. Just because the Lamb was slain then doesn't mean the book was written then. It doesn't follow.
     
  19. Rev. G

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    Election took place, according to Scripture, before creation.

    Eph. 1:4 - "Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world."

    Their rejection became final at the point of death.

    Rev. G
     
  20. Rev. G

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    This isn't even "Arminianism," it is pure Pelagianism - the heresy which has been condemned the most extensively in the history of the Church.
     

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