Those who make God imperfect !

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, Sep 4, 2012.

  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    By their fruits you shall know them ! Speaking of false prophets, Christ says this Matt 7:15-18

    15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

    16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

    17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

    18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

    What fruit is Jesus speaking of here ? Well its not the fruit of the Spirit that Paul writes on in Gal 5:22 because men by the strength of nature can emulate good moral qualities, in fact, that is what Jesus means by they have on sheep clothing outwardly, that which man takes pride in, like the hypocritical jews here Matt 23:38

    Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

    Yes men can emulate being people of faith, joy, peace and patience and etc, in fact, Paul says they appear as ministers of righteousness 2 Cor 11:14-15

    14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

    15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

    The word righteousness means:

    integrity, virtue, purity of life, rightness, correctness of thinking feeling, and acting

    This is also morality, which means also:


    conformity to the rules of right conduct; moral or virtuous conduct.

    moral quality or character.

    So Satan's servants or ministers do have a emphasis on morality because they know that is impresses men, with it we appear righteous to men as Jesus said in Matt 23:38

    But what the false preachers or servants of Satan cannot emulate, and that is an Spiritual Understanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Person of God, the True God, and so their fruit of a lack of understanding the things of God as taught by the Spirit, this exposes them as false prophets to the True People of God, and so by the fruit of their Spiritual Understanding or lack thereof, we shall know them. Yes these false believers will have very commendable morals in their religious ways, and by that, they deceive many !

    One of the doctrinal fruits that expose them as false prophets is that which makes God imperfect is this 1 Tim 2:4

    4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

    If God so willed something here, He desires it, He purposes it, He determined it, resolved it, but yet the false preachers says He does not perform, contrary to Job 23:13

    13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.

    So a non performance of that God wills to occur, denotes an imperfection in God. It as well denotes an imperfection in His Wisdom and the ability of Christ, and Christ's failure to accomplish God's will, in seeking and saving that which was Lost Lk 19:10. Unless we suppose that those in 1 Tim 2:4 be a different bunch altogether than those God sent Christ to seek and to save that were lost here Lk 19:10 !

    The false preachers and their followers will confess that God does not perform what He desires in regards to 1 Tim 2:4, this is Blasphemy !
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,056
    Likes Received:
    48
    satan , nor sinners, cannot mimic the fruit of the Spirit, as He creates that in chrsitians...

    have you received jesus by faith in him yet?
     
  3. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    You evaded the post and its points. Why respond if you do not want to debate the points that were made ?

    Do you believe that God wants people to be saved from 1 Tim 2:4 but They will not be saved as God desires ? Yes or No !
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,056
    Likes Received:
    48
    Think that God will save those whom he foreknew and predestined to become saved by the Cross of Chrsit, and they will be saved when faith placed into jesus!
     
  5. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    The false prophets are those who teach that God's Law can be chopped up and the wrong parts ignored to suit their theology in the same way that Thos. Jefferson cut up his Bible.
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,056
    Likes Received:
    48
    Are we under the old or the new Covenant though?
     
  7. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    Do you believe that God wants people to be saved from 1 Tim 2:4 but They will not be saved as God desires ? Yes or No !
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,056
    Likes Received:
    48
    ALL who will be saved are those chosen by the Father to be found in'the beloved!"
     
  9. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    >Are we under the old or the new Covenant though?

    The covenants are cumulative. The later does not replace the earlier.

    All humans are under the Noahic Covent because Noah is the parent of all living people.

    The Mosaic Covenant ONLY applies to the people who came out of Egypt with Moses. There no statement in the Mosaic covenant which obligates gentiles outside the Land.

    ACTS teaches that Jews are obligated by all three covenants. Gentiles are obligated by the Noahic and the Christian Covenant.

    To me, nothing else makes sense.
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,056
    Likes Received:
    48
    in this present time, ALl saved under the new covenant!
     
  11. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have finished the Work thou gavest me to do !



    Jn 17:4

    4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

    Christ here has stated that He accomplished the undertaking the Father gave Him to do !

    Now if the Work, the undertaking, the employment that the Father gave Him to do was saving Work as in Lk 19:10

    10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

    The word seek is a verb that means to endeavor, to undertake, to work !

    So His Work was to undertake to save that which was Lost. And so if God desires all men to be saved and come to the Knowledge of the Truth, and that was Christ's Work to accomplish for the Father, but yet some of those specific all men 1 Tim 2:4 do not get saved as the Father desired, and it was Christ Work to do so, then how can Christ honestly say, that He finished or accomplished the Work the Father gave Him to do ?
     
  12. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His Hand !

    Isa 53:10

    10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

    What does this word pleasure mean ? It is the hebrew word chephets and means:


    delight, pleasure

    a) delight

    b) desire, longing

    c) the good pleasure

    d) that in which one takes delight

    It means purpose as Per Ecc 3:1,17

    I think this is important because the greek word will in 1 Tim 2:4 is thelo and means:


    to will, have in mind, intend

    a) to be resolved or determined, to purpose

    b) to desire, to wish

    c) to love

    1) to like to do a thing, be fond of doing

    d) to take delight in, have pleasure

    As you can see I highlighted how both words means the same !

    Now of course the Isa 53:10 Passage is speaking of Christ and saving Work effected by His Death.

    Now, if the Pleasure of the Lord [ God the Father] prospered in His Hand, that is , it was successful,

    And it was the God's pleasure that all men be saved and come into the knowledge of the Truth as per 1 Tim 2:4

    And it was Christ's Saving obligation to seek and to save that which was Lost Lk 19:10

    10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

    And it cometh not to pass that all whom the Lord desired to be saved [and not lost] 1 Tim 2:4, then how say the Prophecy that the Pleasure of the Lord prospered in His Hand ? We must conclude therefore that scripture bears a false testimony as to the success of the Lord Jesus Christ and the pleasure of the Lord prospering in His Hand or we must say that the saving of those in 1 Tim 2:4 was not the pleasure that Christ was to have prosper in His hand, which would leave us confused as to why Jesus would say what He did in Luke 19:10

    10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost. Who sent Him to come and do that ? Was it the One who had the desire of 1 Tim 2:4 ?

    I challenge anyone to give me some answers here, especially those that say it is the pleasure of the Lord for all men without exception to be saved and come into the knowledge of the truth as per 1 Tim 2:4 and it does not turn out so ! Care to explain what happened to Christ prospering in this His Father's desire ?
     

Share This Page

Loading...