Thoughts on "Liberal Education"

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by Rhetorician, May 1, 2009.

  1. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician
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    To all who have an (intellectual) ear:

    Kevin Bauder has given a great essay on "In the Nick of Time" concerning the Quadrivium and Trivium. If you are not knowledgeable of the terms it will be a good read for you.

    http://www.centralseminary.edu/publications/Nick/Nick215.html

    Please read the article and come back and share some of your comments with the folk who read the BB. I have fought (verbally) for years (literally) for an "educated clergy" here and in other venues. I think this one article may have capsulized it better than I ever have.

    Enjoy!:thumbs:

    "That is all!"
     
  2. paidagogos

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    Yes & NO

    Whereas I agree with many of the points and the overall argument, I am not sure that the "Quadrivium and Trivium" are the best means of achieving the desired outcome. Personally, I am prejudiced toward physics and mathmatics where intellectual rigor is an inherent component. As Pascal said, "No one should study theology before mastering physics."

    Bauder and I have locked horns upon occasion. He berated, although I thought undeservedly, my apparent lack of breadth and depth in appreciation for classical wisdom and I found his understanding of modern epistemology and his classical logic less than profound. It seems that Bauder's view of logic, and I stand to be corrected on this, is closer to the classical views of Gordon Clark than Van Til's analogical understanding of reality. I tilt toward Van Til (pun intended).

    What do you think?
     
  3. Plain Old Bill

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    I guess I'll just have make do with my set of The Great Books of the Western World.
     
  4. paidagogos

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    Hey Bill! Read those and you'll have a pretty good classical education, I think. I don't know that one has to read them in Latin and Greek. :smilewinkgrin:
     
  5. Crabtownboy

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  6. Revmitchell

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    While I am not anti-education the article makes a false equivalent between being a doctor and being a pastor. As a God called preacher of the word of God the main component of the ability to do what God called him to do is the reliance on God, not on man made education. What the man of God needs most is an open heart towards God. Just because some equate the office of pastor and a "profession" does not mean we leave God out of picture.
     
  7. Rhetorician

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    Rev. Mitchell Response

    Rev. Mitchell,

    I hope you are well and under the blessing of the Lord.

    We Baptists labor, it seems to me, under the false assumption that formal education is not needed. I have even heard some old timers say "that what we need is 'knee-ology' and not theology." But most would have an opinion somewhere between that one and the "educational snobbery" I have been accused of being.

    I agree wholeheartedly with your idea as stated above. But it seems rather naive on the one hand and/or arrogant on the other to say that a man who is "called of God" does not need some rudimental ministerial training. Even if this training is under the auspices of a local church and seasoned pastor or elder/deacon leadership the "novice," it seems to me, needs some kind of formal training. I hope I have understood you completely. If I have not, then please come back and defend your position or upbraid me.

    "That is all!":smilewinkgrin:
     
  8. Revmitchell

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    I understand your concern and it is reasonable to consider it. My concern about the op is that is is singularly focused on formal education and presents it as the main or primary need when in fact it is secondary. What I see is much work being done by the church today through every means except a reliance on prayer and fasting. It is my position that if all other forms of education were to be dissolved tomorrow the church could in fact carry on quite effectively. But if prayer and fasting were lost the church would cease to exist. Not that that is possible.

    Again, I am not against any form of education but when we speak of the effectiveness of the God called man to speak of education and leave out the more weighty spiritual matters is a failure to address the situation correctly and gives the appearance of formal education as having the greater weight. Personally I will continue to get formal education until the Lord takes me home. But if I had to pick only three tools to continue on in the ministry it would be prayer, fasting and the word of God.
     
  9. Rhetorician

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    Rev. Mitchell

    Rev. Mitchell,

    On another topic; you make several assertions in your "signature." I, for one, would greatly appreciate all the quotes, statistics, citations, and/or data if you have them. I believe you are a man of honor and integrity. These would be good to have at hand when speaking against "abortion on demand!"

    "That is all!":wavey:
     
  10. paidagogos

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    Classical Reformed college

    Check out the following link for a look at a classical Reformed college, New St. Andrews College. Tell us what you think.

    http://nsa.edu/
     
  11. Crabtownboy

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    From the web site it looks interesting. The listing of required readings is interesting. Some day, if I have time, I will compare their reading list against those required readings at St. John's College. Do not confust St. John's College with the basketball power St. John's Univeristy.

    I like the small group approach. That is the method St. John's also uses.
     
    #11 Crabtownboy, Jun 9, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2009

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