Thoughts on pleasing God

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by ScottEmerson, Aug 11, 2003.

  1. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson
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    Rick Warren writes:

    If this is, indeed, true, then don't even the "mundane" things in life contain the possiblility of being "spiritual?" What does this mean for the insinuation that youth ministry is somehow carnal or sinful?

    Do you agree or disagree with Warren? What does that mean for your life?
     
  2. rlvaughn

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    I desire to think about this part of the statement a little more.
    I believe this is correct and in line with Paul's instruction to the Colossians, "And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;" though I would add that "rais[ing] a family" should be singled out as somewhat distinct in type from the first five activities mentioned.
    I still wouldn't consider washing dishes or repairing a machine a "spiritual" activity. They are still "carnal" - pertaining to the needs & activities of the flesh - but carnal doesn't necessarily mean sinful. Carnal can be sinful or not sinful - just plain "mundane", as you say. Maybe (just maybe) a way to phrase this would be that doing "carnal" activities for the glory of God "sanctifies" them. That is, at least, it adds a dimension to them that is not available to the non-Christian.
    I think there would be a little gap in logic if we were to just assume that it answers the problem. We should not assume that any activity that can be done to the glory of God can therefore be done in the church house or necessarily even in public (taking baths, monogamous sexual relations, etc. can be done to the glory of God, though they wouldn't be done in public view). I think we must also go back and remember the distinction between carnal and sinful - they are not necessarily equal. And we must remember that there is a distinction between believing certain methods of youth ministry are carnal or unscriptural or sinful or whatever, and believing the younger generations in the church should not be ministered to at all.

    As far as I understand his meaning on a cursory look, I agree. I understand the Scriptures to teach that in whatever we do, we should do it to the glory of God. If we can't, then we should leave it off. It means I should wash the dishes because looking out for my family's life and health can be done to the glory of God. It means I should "repair a machine, sell a computer or grow a crop" because supporting my family can be done to the glory of God. But I wouldn't bring an engine to church to repair or add washing dishes as the ending of the communion service.

    "Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God."
     
  3. donnA

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    I think what he is saying is that all our activity(except sin of course) if done becasue of God, becasue of our relationship with God, are offered up to God as our worship of Him. We did a study once that said worship isn't just what we do on Sunday, we do it everyday in everything we do, if we are living a christian lifestyle. We choose to live the way we do becasue we know God
    Repeating a verse already given,
    1Cor.10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
    Just some thoughts anyway.
     
  4. ScottEmerson

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    Real quick - I'll be on later tonight...

    Is it true that things are either sinful or glorifying to God? Is there a gray area?
     
  5. Dr. Bob

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    Making arbitrary division between "sacred" and "secular" is wrong.

    ALL GROUND IS HOLY GROUND! EVERY BUSH IS A BURNING BUSH!
     
  6. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    Scott,

    No one said that youth ministry per se is carnal or sinful. I did say that I have some serious problems with youth ministry as it is practiced today.

    I didn't say that carnal things are necessarily sinful. To the contrary, I argued strongly against that heresy. I did say that I think it is wrong to use carnal activities (such as sports) to draw youth into the church.

    Now I cannot conceive of a more holy and godly carnal activity than providing for the widows. This, says James, is "pure religion and undefiled."

    And yet Paul said in I Timothy chapter 5 that it is the responsibility of the family to meet this need - not the church. The only time the church is to support widows is when there is no one else to meet this need. His exact words were,

    "Let not the church be charged."

    Now, if it is the duty of the family to provide for the material needs of their widows, how much more so for a family to provide for the recreational "needs" - if there is such a need - of their children?

    When we are in a worship service the Lord should be the focus. Not the Lord and baseball, or the Lord and the next ski trip, or the Lord and anything else. Just the Lord. Just Jesus.

    When I give my money to the church I expect it to go for spiritual ends - namely the support of the gospel ministry - whether it be at home or abroad. When I know people who have carnal needs I do what I can for them so the church will, in Paul's words, "not be charged."

    I have always provided whatever recreational and social needs my son has and I don't expect the church to foot the bill for these things. I have also always encouraged my son, as much as possible, to socialize with other Christian young people. I do not, however, get up when the worship of God is taking place and talk about my son's recreational activities.

    As for the "mundane," or to use a more Biblical term, carnal things of life being spiritual - I wouldn't say the activities themselves are spiritual. Actually, the Bible says they are "vanity." However, we can exercise spirituality by being thankful to God for what we have and knowing that God is with us wherever we are and whatever we are doing. As Solomn said,

    "Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works. Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment. Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labor which thou takest under the sun.

    Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave whither thou goest."


    Mark Osgatharp
     
  7. Artimaeus

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    Dr. Bob, I didn't realize you went around barefoot all the time. I guess you have more in common with us Eastern Kentucky hillbillies than I thought. :eek:
     
  8. ScottEmerson

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    Where would we classify Christian fellowship? As carnal or as spiritual?

    I would say that it is a spiritual exercise.
     

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