Time to renew my challenge

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by MikeS, Sep 19, 2003.

  1. MikeS

    MikeS
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    Now that Boettner has shown up again as an authoritative source (snork!) I think I have to renew my challenge:

    Where are the Catholic books, articles and websites that now, today, are being used by Catholics to slander and impune Protestants? Where are the Catholic Boettners, Chicks, Hunts, Chiniquys, Maria Monks, etc, etc?

    If the Catholic Church is really so full of liars and fakers, there should be dozens, hundreds of such books and articles being used today to unfairly attack Protestants. Surely if Catholicism is built on lies and Protestantism is built on truth, there should be carloads of Catholic lies being used today against Protestantism. Tell me where they are, so I can in turn attack them for their dishonesty. Who knows, maybe I'll even convert!
     
  2. DHK

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    John MacArthur

    Try the above website. Scroll down until you come to Catholics.
    DHK
     
  3. MikeS

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    Huh? I don't see any Catholic-originated lies used to attack Protestantism there.
     
  4. DHK

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    Huh? I don't see any Catholic-originated lies used to attack Protestantism there. </font>[/QUOTE]I am not sure what you are looking for. He has 3 sections on Catholicism. The second one in particular exposes Catholicism for what it is.
    DHK
     
  5. MikeS

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    Huh? I don't see any Catholic-originated lies used to attack Protestantism there. </font>[/QUOTE]I am not sure what you are looking for. He has 3 sections on Catholicism. The second one in particular exposes Catholicism for what it is.
    DHK
    </font>[/QUOTE][​IMG] [​IMG]

    No, No, I'm looking for books full of lies and hatred, written by Catholics, and currently being used by Catholics to falsely attack and slander Protestantism. The "reverse equivalent" of Protestant books full of lies and hatred such as Boettner, Hunt, Chick, Chiniquy, etc. If the Catholic Chuch is founded on lies, then there must be hundreds of such books put out by the Catholic Church to attack its "enemy," "true Protestantism."
     
  6. thessalonian

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    "full of lies and hatred such as Boettner, Hunt, Chick, Chiniquy, etc. "

    These in particular exposes these men for what they are.


    Apparently you can add Johny Mac to the list also. Mike Gedron is another as well as Robert Zins, Eric Svedson, and James White. These guys make a living off of lies.
     
  7. MikeS

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    Yes, but what if what they say is true? Then the Catholic Church is a Church of lies. What do liars do? Well, they lie! So I want to find all of these Catholic lies being used to slander and attack Protestantism. Either they exist or they don't.

    If they exist, then the Catholic Church (or at least individual Catholics) is befouling itself in doing the work of the Father of Lies.

    If they don't exist, then what does that tell us? If all the lies are on one side, what does that tell us? Who, then, is in the service of the Father of Lies?
     
  8. Ray Berrian

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    Where do liars go when this life is over? Outside of ' . . . the city . . . . is whosoever who loveth and maketh a lie.' [Revelation 22:14-15] Things, places and doctrines not found in the Bible are the lies.

    Also, the works of the flesh are listed in Galatians 5:19-21. Those who spread 'heresies' . . . . shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.'

    Does the Lord mean what He says in I Timothy 2:5 or can we include also the Co-Redemptrix with Christ, the Queen of Heaven? Now who are the liars?!

    Some push around the American judicial system. Try your chances at convincing the Judge of Heaven and earth--Jesus Christ that there is more than one Mediator than Him. Let me know what He does with you when you stand before His Divinity and judicial system, after you have prattled this lie and heresy.
     
  9. WPutnam

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    MikeS,

    Your challange went completely over their heads! Only Thessalonian and I got it! [​IMG]

    You could also extend your challenge to web sites. There is a plethora of sites that have forums dedicated to either Catholicism (as at CARM) or to "Other faiths" as here in BaptistBoard. Some of them will boot you off immediately if you defend the Catholic faith! :(

    I have yet to see a Catholic board put there expressedly to put down Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Anglicans, the whole nine yards with tons and tons of literature that attacks a particular denomination (you will find articles where a denomination is exposed to it's errors in the light of Catholic doctrine, but in a polite and non-offensive manner.)

    You will find Catholic sites where Catholicism is opposed by others who come into the forum, but the forum is not there to specifically put down a Protestant demonination.

    Good job MikeS! [​IMG]

    God bless,

    PAX

    Bill+†+


    - Anima Christi -

    Soul of Christ, sanctify me.
    Body of Christ, save me.
    Blood of Christ, inebriate me.
    Water from the side of Christ, wash me.
    Passion of Christ, strengthen me.
    O good Jesus, hear me;
    Within Thy wounds hide me and permit
    me not to be separated from Thee.
    From the Wicked Foe defend me.
    And bid me to come to Thee,
    That with Thy Saints I may praise Thee,
    For ever and ever. Amen.
     
  10. MikeS

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    Indeed, Bill, I will now extend the challenge to lying, slanderous, hateful websites as well. Now that it is our combined challenge, maybe we should call it the S&W Challenge? ;)
     
  11. thessalonian

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    Let's see now, I will go to hell for having some bad theology (if it in fact is) where I think salvation comes from Christ but Mary interceeds for us to him but (as you state in that OSAS thread) I would get to go to heaven early if I fornicated or killed somebody as long as I am saved (unless of course I mistakenly "know" that I am saved but am not really as you said on another thread). That makes alot of sense. And it gets funnier. So which bad theology gets you to hell Ray and which gets you to heaven. Are you sure all of yours is right because if it's not it's a lie by any standard. Gotta be 100% correct in everything you say by the standard you are imposing on us or your cooked (literally).

    By the way, when you gonna answer my question. Did you pastor a UCOC for 23 years?
    Blessing Ray

    [ September 19, 2003, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: thessalonian ]
     
  12. neal4christ

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    Like others who go around tossing numbers that they have absolutely no objective evidence for and they don't bother to check it out? Ah, I see! :rolleyes:

    Neal
     
  13. neal4christ

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    Inquiring mind: What are these "lies" that MacArthur, White, and Svendsen are spreading? I give you Hunt, Chick, and those sorts, I definitely don't agree with them. But what of these three I listed? What are the "lies" that they make a living off of? (Actually, MacArthur does not make a living off of it. The RCC is anything but his main focus or concern. And White deals with a lot of Reformed issues as well as Mormons and others, not just the RCC. [​IMG] )

    In Christ,
    Neal
     
  14. neal4christ

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    Is this really your test for truth? If it is, that is really sad. If you want to point out sinners and bad men in organizations, then you will have just as big of a problem. If you really want to go down that road, you will just as well disqualify the RCC as being the "true" church.

    In Christ,
    Neal
     
  15. thessalonian

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    We could go round and round about sacrificing Christ over and over again if you like. It is a lie. We don't teach it and you guys don't believe it can happen so. Yet you insist on rubbing our noses in it as if it were truth without ever stopping and giving a thought about slandering and missrepresenting someones religion. I will grant you that White focuses on others. Everybody but himself. But the real money is in slamming Cathoicism.

    Neal, the real service these guys provide Protestants is in making you and others like you feel comfy where you are at. If there is no fullness of the truth you can have your Bible Church and it can be whatever fits what you are comfortable with. Come over to the truth Neal. The fullenss of the truth. Jesus Christ invites you.

    Blessings.
     
  16. MikeS

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    Is this really your test for truth? If it is, that is really sad. If you want to point out sinners and bad men in organizations, then you will have just as big of a problem. If you really want to go down that road, you will just as well disqualify the RCC as being the "true" church.

    In Christ,
    Neal
    </font>[/QUOTE]Neal, just read what I asked for instead of feeling sad for me. I'm just asking where are the Catholic Chicks, Hunts, Boettners, etc. Where are the Catholics that so slander and villify the Protestants? Aren't you curious? As I said earlier, either they do exist, or they don't. If they don't, then there is something different about Protestant reaction to Catholicism and Catholic reaction to Protestantism. Doesn't this intrigue you?

    Here's another question for you. How much time does your average Protestant spend defending his faith against what he honestly believes to be outright lies, slanders and ignorant distortions? Do you think it's more, less, or the same as the amount of time the average Catholic spends defending his faith against what he honestly believes to be outright lies, slanders and ignorant distortions? Be honest now!

    OK, I'll boil it down even further. Why do so many Protestants hate and rage against Catholic Christianity, and so few Catholics hate and rage against Protestant Christianity? Why do Protestants do such a disproportionate amount of the hating done by Christians against one another?
     
  17. Yelsew

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    The way I see it, the RCC makes the claim it is the only true church. Any organization that makes such a claim exposes virtually everything it does or believes to intense scrutiny. Therefore there will be mountains of criticism of the organization and its product by making such a claim, where there will be little written in its defense. The Catholic Church has had to squander vast amounts of money and resources because of its exposed wrong doings. The resourses squandered in such defenses should have been spent feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, giving drink to the thirsty, etc., then there would have been no time for the wrong doings. But alas, squandering one's wealth seems to be the mark of monolythic organizations. And "legal beagals" thrive in glutiny on them.

    Microsoft is an example of the principle. Microsoft is the target of virtually every software writer, hacker, bug and worm developer. None of that changes the fact that Microsoft retains the lions share of the software market. Microsoft has had to spend vast amounts of its resources to protect itself from challenges to its own unfairness and wrong doings. The money Microsoft spends in it's defense should have been spent in educating the uneducated, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, etc. But alas, PRIDE and GREED are powerful enemies of righteousness.

    What the Catholic Church fails to recognize is that it is but one part of the big picture of God's church. It is not the whole enchilada! Just as there were Twelve Apostles, there could be Twelve parts of the Church of Jesus Christ, all rightly claiming to be the true church of Jesus Christ!

    The Catholic Church claims Peter as its root, Others may claim various other Apostles as the root. The true vine is Jesus Christ, all others are mere branches. Those branches that do not produce the fruit that Jesus intended, are pruned away, and new branches grow to produce the fruit.

    So, let's cut the non-sense of claiming to be "the one true church", and get busy about the Lord's work for His church.

    To the Catholic Priesthood, I say this, prune away those false dogmas such as the eternal powers of Mary, the vain repitition of memorized prayers, and the others that the protestants have rightly pointed out to you as "false doctrine". Clean up your own ranks, making each Priest accountable for what he does to others. Rest assured, your sins will find you out!

    To the Criticisers scriptures say this. Do not accuse unjustly! And, Be sure to remove the beam from your own eye before you attempt to remove the speck from the eye of another. Paul teaches that before you partake of the Lord's Table, that you rectify and reconcile all differences that you have with your brothers. Matthew teaches, If your brother refuse to hear you, take another with you, if he then refuse to hear you, accuse him before the church and let the congregation deal with the brother! Catholics, The accusations against you have been presented to the congregation of Jesus' church. You have been accused of your wrong doctrines, what say you in your own defense? Remember you cannot claim to be the true church, merely a part of the true church. The Catholic church is not the true vine, but only a branch!
     
  18. neal4christ

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    Where does all this "you" stuff come from? I have never even read any of these guys' things on the RCC! I think you need to get off the conspiracy theory kick! And were you not the one trying to rub every protestants nose in the undocumented and unverifiable "fact" of 30,000+ denominations? Give me a break! Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black!

    In Christ,
    Neal

    P.S. Here at my seminary, White's main contributions are primarily in the area of Reformed theology, NOT "slamming" Catholicism.
     
  19. neal4christ

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    I must ask, though, what is fruitful of all this? What is your point? That men are sinners and some in the name of Christ are really wolves in sheep's clothing? Okay, the RCC has done well in showing us that too! So what is your point?

    Actually, no, not really. Catholics used to murder protestants. Doesn't that intrigue you? Same line of thinking. Are you claiming that every Catholic writer has a halo over his head and always speaks the truth concerning opposing views? I find that very hard to believe. But I have not read enough, nor do I feel like doing it, to "give" you the authors that you look for. The couple of books I read by Hahn I would question a bit, but I would by no means say that he intentionally misrepresents others.

    I don't know, honestly. Most Catholics I run in to don't have a clue what they believe other than be a good person and that gets you to heaven. Most protestants I know don't know what they believe. Kind of hard to defend what you don't know, huh? Yes, Catholics may see it as an "outright" lie, but much depends on perspective. You say you don't worship Mary, so when a protestant says you do, you scream, "Outright lie! I told you the truth!" But what you call veneration is to me just another term for worship. See? I am not "lying" about it. In my best judgment and assessment, you worship Mary (just an example).

    You guys really need to get off of the conspiracy theories! Do you really think that we are that obsessed with you guys? In our church, "Catholic" may be brought up maybe three times a year, at most! At seminary, we rarely discuss Catholics much at all (at least the present day system). In my own life, the only time I really give much thought to you guys is here on the computer. News Flash: We are not obsessed with Catholics! Are there some bad apples? Of course! Jack Chick would hate most protestants! And what you call hating, in most cases, I would question greatly. What did the RCC do in old times with those who questioned its authority and disagreed with it? Kill 'em or exile 'em! Why did they spend such a disproportiate amount of time doing this?

    Come on, now. You argument proves at best there are sinful men who parade around like they are the holiest of saints. The RCC has their fair share of these, too. They may not spend their time writing about protestants, but it has and does come out in many other ways. So what is fruitful whatsoever from your discussion here?

    In Christ,
    Neal
     
  20. neal4christ

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    Alright, here is one of these "lies" being taught by those three men (which one teaches this, by the way). Any others, or is this the only one? I would like to see objective examples rather than the vague term "lies." Kind of hard to discuss anything when there is no substance being dealt with.

    In Christ,
    Neal

    P.S. You must admit, though you don't claim it, it does appear from the RCC's teaching that Christ is sacrificed over and over. Otherwise, what is the point of the Eucharist? Do you not believe that it conveys grace to the one receiving it, each time they receive it? And you do teach it is the physical body and blood, correct? So at best, you must admit that it "appears" that you do sacrifice Christ over and over. I am not speaking to the actual truth of the matter, but I am referring to appearances.
     

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