Tithe vs offering

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Salty, Aug 10, 2009.

  1. Salty

    Salty
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    Does the NT REQUIRE a thithe, or an offering.

    Salty

    I know we have discussed this before, but you know, new members, some changed minds,ect
     
  2. Johnv

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    I don't think one can answer what the NT says, without taking both the OT and NT as a whole. The NT says to give God everything, since it's all his. The OT says to return to God 10%.

    The OT is about the least you SHOULD do. The NT is about the most you CAN do. My two cents is that a person should be AT LEAST returning 10% to God (which is not necessarily the church). But the giver should do so willingly, cheerfully, and without expectation of return.
     
  3. Darrenss1

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    I don't see anywhere that the NT church commanded or endorsed the OT law structured tithe. In 2 Cor 9 Paul taught and collected freewill offerings, which christians were to give in love, cheerfully, not begrudgingly..etc This I see replaces the tithe.

    Some churches today teach that the offerings Paul taught are above the tithe, I don't think that is the way the NT church was giving. Besides tithing is a debt, freewill offerings are not a debt but an opportunity to give freely even sacrificially if they so choose. I know churches teach tithing as the base giving amount and therefore freewill offerings and faith promise go on top of the tithing amount. In other words you can't give a freewill offering or a faith promise unless the tithe has been payed first. I don't see that practised by the churches in the NT.

    :smilewinkgrin:

    Darren
     
  4. ktn4eg

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    I don't see the NT requiring a tithe; in fact, I don't even see where the NT requires an offering.

    What I do see the NT teaching is that our giving ought to be motivated out of a genuine love for the Lord and for the advancing of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

    Others have suggested that a tithe ought to be the minimum that a child of God give back to Him. I tend to agree with that, but if God lays it upon your heart to give more, then certainly you should do so.

    What the exact amount a child of God should give ought to be between him and the Lord. If that's a tithe (10% of your gross income), then great. If it's more than a tithe, fine.

    Would the Lord ever lay upon one of His children's heart to give less than a tithe? Possibly, but I personally can't imagine Him doing so--however, I'm not the Holy Spirit, and I'm content to leave something like that in His hands.
     
  5. Darrenss1

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    Just to clarify, are you suggesting that the offering and giving in the NT church (2 Cor ch9) were actually tithes? I can't help but notice your use of the word "tithe" is being used to describe an offering or giving. OT tithing was not an offering or giving otherwise Malachi chapter 3 would not announce a man (specifically priests for the context of Malachi) is robbing God for withholding the tithe.

    Darren
     
  6. HankD

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    2 Corinthians 9
    6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
    7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.​

    There is no "tithe" (10% of one's income) requirement mentioned here or anywhere else in the epistles for the NT believer.​

    The just shall live by faith.

    However, that does not mean one shouldn't or couldn't give a "tithe" by faith if that is the "purpose" of their heart.​

    There is also a promise attached to NT giving:​

    He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.​


    HankD​
     
  7. preachinjesus

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    The New Testament never uses the term "tithe" but does talk about giving. It seems that the standard is raised...give generously above and beyond. Not only are we to give of our money but also our time and our abilities.

    The OT had the standard of 10%. That is obvious. Yet Christ raised that standard and basically commanded us to give it all back to God. And to give it joyfully.

    In our family we use the 10% as a benchmark. It is where we plan our giving. In many of the families I council I recommend differing levels and help them strategize to get to a benchmark like 10%.

    Money is a touchy subject. I've got a parishioner who makes well over 2 million a year but doesn't use the 10% mark as a benchmark. He gives a certain portion to the church and also to other organizations.

    Maybe this is a side point but in a diversified society don't we have an amazing opportunity to see our tithe not just going to a singular institution but also to other, credible organizations? I dunno...:)
     
  8. ktn4eg

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    I wasn't suggesting that tithing was employed in the passage you cited.

    OT tithing was something different than the giving to which Paul was referring in that passage.

    As best I can tell, OT tithing was more of an obligation of the Israelites based on the Law than the offering Paul was talking about. Moreover, OT tithing had more to do with the giving of one's animals, fruits and grains, etc., than the giving of one's money.

    What I meant to say was that in these days I would think that the norm for giving ought to be at least 10% of one's gross income, if not more. However, should one believe differently about how much to give, I have no problem with that.

    This is a matter that's between that person and the Lord. He will not have to answer to me in the matter of his giving, but I do believe he'll have to answer to the Lord.
     
  9. Darrenss1

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    Agreed.

    If a person freely chooses to give a 10% or a 50% they can if they so choose. Where I find the problem is churches that force tithing and replace freewill giving/offerings completely with tithing. They use Malachi 3 as the tithing enforcer and call those that don't give a 10% thieves and robbers. I've heard a similar line for those that don't contribute to the missions faith promise, that first they MUST give their 10% in tithes and then they must give their faith promise. IF for example they are short of money for the week they cannot steal and short change their tithes to make up their faith promise amount. Do you see my point... Sometimes it just gets crazy segmenting NT giving and cross pollinating it with OT law.. Either it is NT freewill giving bottom line or OT type tithing.

    Just to add, the other thing that I see happen because of the "tithing" rule is churches that teach that tithing is to be payed before you pay your own bills, rent, food. Anyway just some thoughts.

    Darren
     
    #9 Darrenss1, Aug 11, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2009
  10. AresMan

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    The NT requires "gifts."
     
  11. Graybeard

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    Everything I have, without exception, belongs to God. I give back with that in mind.
     
  12. AresMan

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    Exactly. There is no "tithe" bondage concerning church ministry.
     
  13. grainofwheat

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    We are suppose to present ourselves a LIVING SACRIFICE to the Lord God.
    Romans 12.

    It did not mention money which belongs to Caesar.
    Our life belongs to Jesus and He already owns everything anyway.
     
  14. Darrenss1

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    See 2 Cor ch 9 for a good example of New Testament giving.

    Darren
     
  15. Alive in Christ

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    I have never tithed and never will.

    It is thoroughly unscriptural for the Christian.

    I cringe when I hear pastors attempt to put Gods people under the bondage of tithing. And it inevitably turns quickly to the pastor instilling fear into the hearts of the people in order to get the $$$$ out of them.


    Christians should of course offer their freewill offerings to help keep the church running, and/or help finance outreaches and ministries.

    How much? The scriptures make it plain....

    "Let each one give as they purpose in their heart, not grudgingly or out of compultion, for God loves a cheefull giver"
     
  16. AresMan

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    There is no

    (1) command/obligation/suggestion/example/principle
    (2) for a Christian/anyone to tithe
    (3) of net/gross/gross+benefits
    (4) monetary
    (5) income
    (6) to a local church

    anywhere in Scripture. It is a complete and utter myth. The modern church tithe teaching has NO realistic basis in Scripture.
     
  17. Darrenss1

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    What makes me shake my head is hearing pastors preach that freewill offerings and faith promise pledges are to be given on top of the tithe and they use 2 Cor 9 as their basis and have backup proof texts that have nothing to do with tithing but either giving, faithfulness, or love for the church. Its a guilt driven practice and I did it for almost 7 years.

    Darren
     
  18. Darrenss1

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    Well said. :thumbs:

    Darren
     
  19. Crabtownboy

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    Do you want a tithe blessing or an offering blessing.

    Actually, Christ demands all. We are to be willing to give all to him is necessary. A title is only the beginning. An offering is stealing from Christ.

    The way to determine the faith of an American is not to threaten them with death, but to ask for their money.
     
  20. Darrenss1

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    The point is that tithing is not for christians, literally there can be no actual tithing practiced. Who said blessing was the basis to make that decision anyway? IF you for example gave $50 where do you get the idea that $40 of that is your expected tithe and $10 is your real offering? I don't read that practiced by the NT church at all.

    According to what scripture?? 1 Tim 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

    How many preachers claim that God demands their tithe before they even pay for their bills and groceries...

    And this is how you ought to judge whether the NT church practiced the collection of the Jewish tithe?

    Darren
     

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