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Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by humbleherc, Feb 9, 2004.
Are tithes necessary for the new testament church?
All right, a subject that has NEVER been discussed here on the Baptist Board.
Tithing is middle-class America's way of robbing God.
If the new testament church can survive financially, then yes. Every member of the church must support the church they're a member of. Otherwise, you're simply taking from the church and not giving back.
This is a very hotly debated subject. Was the tithe required under the law? Yes, to support the tribe of Levi. Are we under the law? No. But it could be pointed out that Abraham was not under the law in his day and he gave a tenth of all his goods, although there was no command given for him to do so.
Is what is written in Malachi 3 for the nation of Israel only, or for all of us? There is not only curses pronounced there, but blessings as well. We know from scripture that we are not to put the Lord, "To the test", however, in Malachi 3:10 He says, "...try me now in this."
Now, I absolutely detest the prosperity Gospel of the Word-of-Faith teachers. They go way overboard and teach that God will make you RICH because of our giving (Especially to them!)But is God merely a banker, in currency that is? Is there not many ways for God to bless? Also, will God be a net-debtor to anyone? I mean, at the judgement seat of Christ, will He say, "I owe you?"
So, is the tithe (tenth) required? No. Is it, however. a good GUIDELINE, for a better thing to call it? Again, good question. I feel that the message that I get in the New Testament(in Acts I mean), is why be LIMITED to a tenth?
I look forward to other replies. I do not pretend to know everything on this subject, or any other for that matter!
No there is no requirement for christians to Tithe 10% to the church, any preacher or ministry that states that you must is in theological error.
That said, all should give as they are able, and for many of us that is more than 10%.
How much should you be giving? Ask the Holy Spirit to tell you.
Tithing is a worship experience! Abraham gave to Melchesadek as a worship experience! The little widow woman that gave her "two mites" was giving as a worship experience!
Folks will say that titheing was expected---it was to be obeyed by those under the Law! The Jews were to do it under the Law!
And somehow folks started saying that when grace came along---that we have been freed from the Law!
The way I look at it----and we've beaten this subject on the board like somebody beats a dead horse---but here's how I see it!!
Anytime you let a Jew living under the Law--do more than you can do living under Grace---you become a disgrace to Grace!!! Grace gives us the incentive to obey God with tithes and offerings!!!
The middle class don't rob God.Christ is the mediator of the new testament not the old.Jesus didn't even need any of Judas's money(filthy lucre)he commanded a fish to bring his tribute money to pay with.There are so many Baal prophets out there it's sick.But thank God for them they are soaking up all the people of error so the true churchs can go free.We call it the flood the devil cast out of his mouth.
You can't give your money to God.Only thing your supporting is a possible hireling and their Old Baals prophets.You mean you listen to them and then pay em.Bullbutter.Tithe arent a necessity .2 corinthains.9:7 I believe in contributions though ,but not a tithe.When the Lord done away with the law and brought in a better testament then why live of the ways of the law letter.Seeing the letter killeth ,but the spirit giveth life.If you are lead of the spirit you are not under the law,so then why desire being in bondage to the law if Christ has set you free.Take the big money out of the churchs and the Hirelings will flee and go get a Job.
A tithe is not a requirement. I have to agree with Watchman, though, in that it is a good guideline.
As NT believers, we are not under the Law. But the Law still stands. Only now the Law stands as an example, a measuring stick if you will, of God's standards. The Law required a tithe of 10%. But a Jew was also required to put back an additional 10% for an offering for the poor, and 10% for the pilgramage to Jerusalem (do not remember the source of that info...Michael Yousef, I think). So a Jew under the Law gave 30%, not 10%.
We are to give out of the fullness of our hearts, joyfully, not expecting anything in return. Everything that we possess comes from God. It is just on loan to us for a short time. We, as stewards of this trust, are to oversee it wisely. Part of that obligation is to give to the ministry of the gospel, in this case your home church.
When Jesus returned to His Father, He left the workings of the church to the believers still here on earth. We are to be God's hands and feet here, doing His work. By giving to our respective churches, we are helping to acomplish that.
Paul said that a minister of the gospel should get his livelihood from the gospel, and that elders who rule well should be counted as worthy of double honor. How can a minister make his living unless the congregation supports him and the ministry of the church?
Alright, let's REALLY have a worship experience! Let's plunder a town, kill all the people there, take all the spoils, then look up the local priest, and give him a tithe of everything. It's all "under grace," and it's all Abraham's example-- 2 valid guidelines for us to follow.... right?
Tithing was given to the Jews as a nation. it is a requirement for them to give their 10%, such as we pay our taxes. that said, tithing is a national issue. it's a responsibility of each jew as a citizen back in the OT. it is not a church responsibility though. to say that the church must give it's tithes based on God requiring the Jews to give tithes is a misapplication of biblical interpretation.
the only thing left as an argument to say that church members are required to give tithes is that Abraham, not being under the law, gave 10%, and christians are commanded to do as Abraham did. this argument, however, is very narrow. studies on Paul's writings and giving as practiced by the early church in Acts can be used as guide.
church members ought to give based on grace orientation. the early church in Acts practiced this, as can be read. but there are no records that they practiced tithing.
If I remember right if you were to add up all the tithes you would get something like 23 percent. To tithe would be quite a burden to some and not much to others. For example to tithe on a ten thousand dolar income would leave not much to live on. But to tithe from a forty million dollar income would leave 36 milion. That is if you were to figure ten percent.
The NT teaches giving. I knew a man who gave ninety percent of his income. I do believe that there are those who should be given to. The idea is to lowetr the rich man's standard of living and to raise the poor man's. God gives to the rich so they can give to those who have less or don't have any.
I believe in tithing very much, and I do give ten percent. My church teaches that the Bible says it's required, and I have read all the passages about tithing in the Bible and I agree as well. So, I tithe. Whether or not God actually requires it, I don't care- I just do it anyway. I'd give even if it wasn't required. I enjoy giving.
Abraham tithed the spoils of a battle, not everything he owned. He did not do this every week, month, year or even for every battle. He did this once.
The Jews tithed their flocks and their crops so that the Levitical priesthood could eat. Although they had money, tithing never required them to give that.
A storehouse was a building used to store the grain that was tithed, it was not a church building or the temple.
The New Testament says we should give willingly and in accordance with our income. Many people in the New Testament sold all that they had and laid it at the apostles feet. Seeing this example, it is easy to see why so many people want to revive the Old Testament tithe, it's a whole lot cheaper than the sacrificial giving that many in the New Testament so eagerly practiced.
I concur. We are called to live to a much higher standard than the Law required.
No the tithe ain't no good guide line sir.Contributions are your guide line for giving in the New testament church.Give the contribution to the clerk not the hireling.My Elders said if you paid them to preach they wouldn't preach and if you payed them they couldn't preach.Lot of difference in a true called servant than a fleeing hireling.Of course most Baptists churchs these days don't even have a clerk much less a decorum to be read that keeps the order.
Alas somebodys got a mind.
Well pay a contribution then and leave the tithe in the pantry.
Some of you are saluting the hirelings by the ways by supporting them also.And bidding them God speed.What ever.Be under the law.Pay your Tithes in vain then.Filthy Lucre i hate it.If you people would would start paying your preacher musterd greens and ocre and corn out of your gardens you will see most of them will leave and go spue there poison some where else.I heard the other day a pastor left one of his church for more money,yea he went to Las Veagas to preach.What drew him the Holy Spirit or the Almighty Dollar.You Guess it.The george washington dollar it will make that hireling dance the serpents dance.