Tithing and Giving

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by gb93433, Jan 29, 2012.

  1. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    I have been thinking about the disagreements over tithing and giving. From what I can tell tithing is taught in the OT and giving in the NT. As I look at the idea that God never changes and what Jesus taught about the OT as he came to not abolish it but to fulfil it. In its fulfillment did he not address the real issues of the spirit of the law.

    I am wondering what your thoughts would be about giving being a fulfillment of tithing in that giving would be the done in the spirit of tithing. Tithing being the minimum gift as a work or service but giving as above the minimum, above a work or service with the spirit of giving in mind.

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. Squidward

    Squidward
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2012
    Messages:
    181
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't know. I have never tried to look heavily into this. I give 10% and that's just my standard and never put much thought into it. My bills are paid on time with extra savings money and the church has more money to function on than if I only gave 5%. I could/should probably give more than 10% on occasion.
     
  3. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    16,659
    Likes Received:
    158
    I wonder how many who will post notes opposing the tithe sing lustily Take my silver and my gold; not a mite would I withhold. and never see the contradiction?

    Christ asks our all. The tithe is only 10%, so I see no problem in the tithe.

    There are those who say that the title is not taught in the NT. Neither is non-tithing. However the OT does teach tithing and, as you said, Christ said he did not come to change the OT.

    This is a hard question for many Americans as they love their money greatly.
     
  4. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    16,659
    Likes Received:
    158
    I wonder how many who will post notes opposing the tithe sing lustily Take my silver and my gold; not a mite would I withhold. and never see the contradiction?

    Christ asks our all. The tithe is only 10%, so I see no problem in the tithe.

    There are those who say that the title is not taught in the NT. Neither is non-tithing. However the OT does teach tithing and, as you said, Christ said he did not come to change the OT.

    This is a hard question for many Americans as they love their money greatly.

    My wife and I have always tithed gross and we were poor and I mean poor when we were first married.
     
  5. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    Can a tithe (10%) be given without the Holy Spirit in mind as a work or service? I am unable to see how one could give without the Holy Spirit in mind.

    So I wonder is if what the difference behind what God had in mind with the tithe in the OT, and giving in the NT addresses that. When Jesus addressed the religious leaders he addressed the spirit of the law because they had done away with the spirit of the law and were only concerned in doing just enough to get by with the minimum of the letter of the law with a complete disregard for the spirit of the law in which God gave it.

    For example if one tithes (10%) do they figure the tithe from the gross wage plus the benefits such as vacation pay, and insurance? Typically it costs an employer about 30% (depending on the state) over the amount of the wage an employee is paid.
     
  6. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2008
    Messages:
    3,822
    Likes Received:
    0
    There is absolutly no tithing requirment of any kind for new covenant christions. Under the new covenant, gods insruction is...

    It could not possibly be any clearer.

    If people want to voluntarily give 10% thats perfectly fine.

    But it is not required during this period of Gods kingdom.

    Free will giving. period
     
  7. Ed B

    Ed B
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2010
    Messages:
    302
    Likes Received:
    0
    This could get sporty.... :)


    Giving a tithe is clearly a biblical principle. It seems reasonable to use 10% as a benchmark. However, no Christian is stealing from God if they don't give 10% of their increase to their local Church. There are a lot of interesting twists to what the Old Testament taught on tithing. It’s unfortunate that 95% of tithe lessons come from Malachi. The other 5% from Abram’s tithing to Melchizedek. The fact he was tithing other people’s stuff before returning the 90% to the original owners is not normally mentioned.

    I give faithfully and cheerfully and I recognize that a tithe was a standard used under the old Covenant and before. So is the concept of the Sabbath. I do not believe that the New Testament levies an obligation on Christians to give 10% of their increase to the storehouse. If it did my next question would be where is the storehouse? The Church is not a storehouse. The locally run interdenominational charities that provide food and clothing to the poor, widows and orphans is much closer to a biblical storehouse than First Church on main street. If we could only find some Levites and travelers to come by….
     
  8. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    I am asking about the idea of NT giving being a fulfillment of OT tithing in that giving cannot be done without the Holy Spirit being involved.
     
  9. freeatlast

    freeatlast
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    The NT lays out how we are to give and it is not the tithe or even based on the tithe. If God wanted His church to tithe or base their giving on the tithe He would have said so in the NT, but He leads us in another direction. That is from a cheerful heart as the Lord has prospered. We are to give until our heart is no longer cheerful with no regards to amount or percent. Tithing or giving based on the tithe does not express the heart because it expressed the law. To prove that, for anyone who tithes or gives based on the tithe I challenge them to try and give based totally on cheerfulness as God has prospered and see the difference. One express' the heart and one the law. The tithe has them under baondage even if they do not recognize it and the heart giving to God sets them free. Any teaching to tithe or base our giving on the tithe for the church is legalism.
    I said that the tithe has them under bondage. To prove that try and give next week without thinking about the tithe and just give any amount your heart is cheerful with and see the bondage you are under. These Pastors who put their people under the bondage of the tithe are in the sin of legalism.
     
    #9 freeatlast, Jan 29, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2012
  10. freeatlast

    freeatlast
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am not sure what you mean by the Holy Spirit being involved. God is not going to lead us in how much to give. He has laid out His way for the church and it is up to us to believe what He says about it without adding to it.
     
  11. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    My point is that the tithe was specific and could be done with a spirit of giving or grudgingly and under compulsion. How can giving be done without the Holy Spirit being involved? In the NT when Jesus taught about the Law in the Sermon On The Mount he taught that he did not come to misinterpret the Law but to fulfil it. The religious leaders had done away with part the part of the Law by disregarding the Spirit of the Law. So could it be that when Paul taught on giving it included the Spirit of the OT tithe and not just the letter?
     
  12. freeatlast

    freeatlast
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    Short and sweet, NO! The tithe is law. The NT giving is grace giving from the heart. Keep in mind that Paul was the Apostle to the gentiles. Back then they did not have the bible like we do. They had no understanding of the OT and many knew nothing about the tithe. Paul never uses the tithe as a principle or even mentions it because to do so clouds how we are to give. The Holy Spirit is not mentioned either. He is not going to lead us in how much to give other then for us to examine our hearts by the method of cheerfulness. Give as long as you are giving cheerfully and at the moment it is anything else STOP! This is to be totally done from our heart cheerfully as the Lord has prospered. The Spirit is not going to tell you how much to give. Your heart is to do that. In other words you are saying, Lord here is how much I want to give you for the work of yuor kingdom this week and thta has to come from a heart that is cheerful about what is given and not worried about how to pay the bills because of the amount given.
    By the way, that is a whole lot more difficult then following the tithe or the principle of the tithe or having the Spirit lay on your heart how much to give as cheerful heart giving lays bare the truth about our hearts.Tithing will cover-up the truth about our hearts.
     
    #12 freeatlast, Jan 29, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2012
  13. Oldtimer

    Oldtimer
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,934
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm not sure if this answers your question....

    Shortly after returning to the church we began to tithe, tithe on the gross of our income. Not because we were asked to do so, but because I beleive we were led to do so. Can't really explain it, as it just seemed to be the right thing to do. There's no regrets or remorse, just a quiet peace that comes from returning a part back to the Lord.

    The rest of the weeks in the month we give offerings, both when the collection plate is passed and other times, too. For example, we've donated supplies and the cost of supplies for various projects. Not because we have to, but because we want to do so. There's a big difference, IMHO.

    Additionally, we volunteer our time on a frequent basis. Doesn't matter what the job may be. If asked to do it and/or the word's out that help is needed, we'll be there, if possible. We've mopped floors, delivered meals, painted rooms, cooked chickens... the list can go on.

    Since we retired, we don't have an abundance of money. However, being retired means we can contribute ourselves along with our tithes and offerings. I can't think of a better way to have tired feet than to have them in the service of the Lord for His glory.
     
  14. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    The Law also includes the spirit in which God gave it.

    I disagree because myself and the testimony of others has been that they either gave or were given exactly the same amount they need to give or receive. Years ago I received exactly what I needed to the penny for something on the date I needed it. I told nobody and the person who gave to me had never given me one penny before. That person was also out of state about 1200 miles away.
     
  15. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    If that is the case then why does Paul greet his readers in 2 Cor with a Greek and Jewish greeting (2 Cor. 1:2)? Giving is taught in 2 Cor. 9:6, 7.
     
  16. freeatlast

    freeatlast
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yopur testimnoy about the gift you received has nothing to do with the giving to the church. I understand your disagreement so tithe if you must. I just choose to believe what the Lord has given in His word without adding to it.
     
    #16 freeatlast, Jan 29, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2012
  17. freeatlast

    freeatlast
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am not sure he does, but if he does rememmber Paul was a Jew greeting greeks, but that would not change Paul being the apostal to the gentiles and him explaining how to give as heart giving.
     
  18. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    Actually I give and do not tithe. My posting has to do with a bridge to the OT tithe and NT giving. Is there a link to the OT and NT in that matter?

    Seems to me that one cannot give without a spirit of giving but can tithe reluctantly or under compulsion which would be from a negative spirit or devoid of the Holy Spirit.
     
  19. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    In the Greek text it is clear and even in the English it is translated "grace" (Greek greeting) and "peace" (Hebrew greeting).
     
  20. drfuss

    drfuss
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2005
    Messages:
    1,692
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ed.writes:
    "Giving a tithe is clearly a biblical principle. It seems reasonable to use 10% as a benchmark. However, no Christian is stealing from God if they don't give 10% of their increase to their local Church. There are a lot of interesting twists to what the Old Testament taught on tithing. It’s unfortunate that 95% of tithe lessons come from Malachi. The other 5% from Abram’s tithing to Melchizedek. The fact he was tithing other people’s stuff before returning the 90% to the original owners is not normally mentioned."

    Yes, tithing preaching texts are usually Malachi and about Abram. Have you ever heard a minister preach on tithing and use Duet. 14 which gives how the Hebrews were to tithe (not with money). Of all the pro-tithing sermons I have heard over the years, I have never heard one taken from Duet. 14. Of course the reason is it would show that tithing is not for today.

    People who tithe, pay their tithe. We give offerings. By definition, tithing is a payment, not a gift, i.e. you don't give your tithe, you pay it.

    For those who assume that people who do not tithe, don't want to give that much, we have always given between 11 and 20 percent of our income to the work of the Lord.
     

Share This Page

Loading...